Random Irritations

[Bunkermagnet]

I watched that video a couple of days ago, and the main conclusions I got from it were:
1. Farmers' real problems are to do with the power of the food industry and supermarkets that keep down the prices they can get for their produce.
2. The IHT relief has driven up the price of agricultural land, so this IHT move might reduce the price of land and get more people into farming.
But until issue #1 has been addressed, I can't see how #2 is going to tempt many into farming.

Getting the consumer to accept an extra 1 or 2p on a pint of milk or loaf of bread is almost impossible.
I'm no fan of Clarkson, but I have watched all 3 of the Farm series, and the standout itme for me was how little the milk farmers got for their milk, because primarily of the big supermarkets.
I have my milk delivered by a milkman. I don't mind paying more for milk in a glass bottle, which is more sustainable, gives employment and also a better price to the dairy farmer.
It's a shame the "Every little helps" slogan doesn't apply to the farmers producing.

Aside from that, whilst I agree farmers do have a tough life (those who own and farm their land) it does seem to be forgotten that small family businesses don't get the IHT relief and they provide employment and tax income just as farmers hopefully do.

 

[Starter]

It’s a straightforward trust, his medical issues were not discussed until after we were happy with the advice given.


When the Duke of Westminster died in 2016 his son inherited £9.9 Billion, but avoided 40% IHT (some £4 Billion) due to him putting the majority of his estate in to trust prior to his death.

It can be done, hence why anybody, not just Farmers, considering their estate after death should seek expert advice

The 7 year still applies.

Perhaps your Bank did not think to mention it. It matters not as survival for 7 years is necessary to avoid IHT on the settlement.

See Trusts and Inheritance Tax on GOV.uk

 

[upsidedown]

So reading that

The IHT will help the people that will want to continue farming and actually targets those that are hoovering up the landing for tax purposes or to sell for houses etc

Yes and no but more no than yes .
The treasury have under estimated the figures as can be seen in the below report.

An impact analysis of APR reforms on commercial family farms

The NFU has consulted with former Treasury and Office for Budget Responsibility Economists to inform this analysis of the impacts of the APR reforms on commercial family farms. Read the report in full.

www.nfuonline.com

The government’s initial claim that only 27% of farms will be affected by the new IHT policy materially underestimates the true proportion. We find that around 75% of commercial family farms will be above the £1 million threshold.

 

[GB72]

I am lucky that the dairy farm a couple of miles from me has a vending machine. You pay your money, put your bottle under the machine and get a lovely pint of the freshest, most sustainable milk and the money all goes to the farmer.

 

[Mudball]

The tyre pressure sensor damaged in the tyre change?
They don't last forever either, but most are damaged when a tyre is changed.
It isn't cheap either

that is my worry... had it changed at a local garage rather than BMW showroom.. and now it is going to cost me extra

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Yes and no but more no than yes .
The treasury have under estimated the figures as can be seen in the below report.

An impact analysis of APR reforms on commercial family farms

The NFU has consulted with former Treasury and Office for Budget Responsibility Economists to inform this analysis of the impacts of the APR reforms on commercial family farms. Read the report in full.

www.nfuonline.com

The government’s initial claim that only 27% of farms will be affected by the new IHT policy materially underestimates the true proportion. We find that around 75% of commercial family farms will be above the £1 million threshold.

Did the government not do the calculations of farms that are over £3mil because of allowances and if they are married etc ?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I am lucky that the dairy farm a couple of miles from me has a vending machine. You pay your money, put your bottle under the machine and get a lovely pint of the freshest, most sustainable milk and the money all goes to the farmer.

Same here

Clipstone Dairy | Farm fresh milk, ice cream and milkshakes in Leighton Buzzard

Local family farm offering fresh milk, milkshake syrups and artisan ice cream available to purchase from our vending machines located in our barn.

www.clipstonedairy.co.uk

Trip there twice a week with daughter who loves it

 

[Voyager EMH]

It’s a straightforward trust, his medical issues were not discussed until after we were happy with the advice given.


When the Duke of Westminster died in 2016 his son inherited £9.9 Billion, but avoided 40% IHT (some £4 Billion) due to him putting the majority of his estate in to trust prior to his death.

It can be done, hence why anybody, not just Farmers, considering their estate after death should seek expert advice

There is an audit every ten years on the Grosvenor family estate and a charge is made and paid to the treasury in lieu of inheritance tax.
Last time it was done the bill was 6%.
I don't know what the final figure was, but I imagine it must have been a few hundred million.
Not exactly getting away scot-free.
The young Duke might be making several of these payments throughout his lifetime.

Even if the bill was £500 million, he might be able to pay £50 million each year for the next ten years.
Would that be one big hospital per year, I wonder?

His father bequeathed a fair bit to charities as well.

 

[PaulMdj]

The 7 year still applies.

Perhaps your Bank did not think to mention it. It matters not as survival for 7 years is necessary to avoid IHT on the settlement.

See Trusts and Inheritance Tax on GOV.uk

The 7 years was discussed at length and has a lot of urban myths attached to it, ie, if a person goes in to care a Local Authority can ignore the 7 year rule if the person needing the care signed over the property and continued to live there.

I’m 100% happy with the advice I received thank you.

 

[upsidedown]

Did the government not do the calculations of farms that are over £3mil because of allowances and if they are married etc ?

Fundamentally the £1 mil threshold is too low.

• The analysis suggests that the majority of estates protected by the £1 million threshold are too small to be viable working farms, and are likely to include a high proportion of landowners letting blocks of bare farmland rather than farmers, whereas the majority of medium sized working farms that will be hit by the liability will not be protected by the ten-year payment window because the resulting payments would still be unmanageably large relative to the economic returns they earn.

2 very good articles but you may have to register to read them.

Defra has conducted no impact assessment of family farm tax - Farmers Weekly

A Freedom of Information (FOI) request has revealed that Defra has carried out no analysis of the impact of the government’s inheritance tax (IHT) reforms

www.fwi.co.uk

How CLA figures dismiss government position on family farm IHT - Farmers Weekly

Lobbying against the proposed cut to agricultural property relief (APR) and business property relief (BPR) is intensifying. Analysis by the Country Land

www.fwi.co.uk

In essence
“There are significant issues when you are looking at an industry where the return on capital employed is low in any case, and when years are very volatile,” she says.

CLA deputy president Gavin Lane says: “Either the government isn’t being honest with the public about the true impact of these reforms, or they don’t understand the nature of rural businesses.

“I’d like to believe it is the latter and that they are prepared to listen to our input rather than continually trying to dismiss it.

“We are being told this will only affect wealthy and larger landowners. This isn’t true – anyone with over about 250 acres is going to be significantly impacted.




“The return on capital in farming averages about 0.9% and therefore the ability to pay these tax bills out of income is impossible.

“It’s very difficult to find a way that a family farm is going to keep on going if the tax is placed on it in its present state.”

 

[PaulMdj]

There is an audit every ten years on the Grosvenor family estate and a charge is made and paid to the treasury in lieu of inheritance tax.
Last time it was done the bill was 6%.
I don't know what the final figure was, but I imagine it must have been a few hundred million.
Not exactly getting away scot-free.
The young Duke might be making several of these payments throughout his lifetime.

Even if the bill was £500 million, he might be able to pay £50 million each year for the next ten years.
Would that be one big hospital per year, I wonder?

His father bequeathed a fair bit to charities as well.

Obviously they’ll pay tax in other ways, just like we all should, but even £500 Mil, is some way short of £4 Billion.

 

[Fade and Die]

Getting the consumer to accept an extra 1 or 2p on a pint of milk or loaf of bread is almost impossible.
I'm no fan of Clarkson, but I have watched all 3 of the Farm series, and the standout itme for me was how little the milk farmers got for their milk, because primarily of the big supermarkets.
I have my milk delivered by a milkman. I don't mind paying more for milk in a glass bottle, which is more sustainable, gives employment and also a better price to the dairy farmer.
It's a shame the "Every little helps" slogan doesn't apply to the farmers producing.

Aside from that, whilst I agree farmers do have a tough life (those who own and farm their land) it does seem to be forgotten that small family businesses don't get the IHT relief and they provide employment and tax income just as farmers hopefully do.

So consumers should pay extra to give the Farmers a fair price whilst Supermarkets post record profits?
https://www.tescoplc.com/interim-re...edium-term guidance range of £1.4bn to £1.8bn.

 

[PaulMdj]

Is there anyone who knows how the £5-6 Billion in subdidies announced for Farmers works?

Do any of the subsidies counteract the IHT damage?

 

[Slime]

A mate of mine has a pal who looks after the financial affairs of 28 exceptionally wealthy families.
27 of those families have already left this country!

 

[woofers]

There comes a time when a much discussed topic in a ‘general thread’ deserves a thread of its own.

 

[upsidedown]

Is there anyone who knows how the £5-6 Billion in subdidies announced for Farmers works?

Do any of the subsidies counteract the IHT damage?

No, despite being asked they aren't letting on and from I understand they aren't subsidies more money being put into flooding relief, bio security and other stuff .
Front page of the Express today and they're giving £536 Mil for overseas agricultural projects !!!!

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Fundamentally the £1 mil threshold is too low.

• The analysis suggests that the majority of estates protected by the £1 million threshold are too small to be viable working farms, and are likely to include a high proportion of landowners letting blocks of bare farmland rather than farmers, whereas the majority of medium sized working farms that will be hit by the liability will not be protected by the ten-year payment window because the resulting payments would still be unmanageably large relative to the economic returns they earn.

2 very good articles but you may have to register to read them.

Defra has conducted no impact assessment of family farm tax - Farmers Weekly

A Freedom of Information (FOI) request has revealed that Defra has carried out no analysis of the impact of the government’s inheritance tax (IHT) reforms

www.fwi.co.uk

How CLA figures dismiss government position on family farm IHT - Farmers Weekly

Lobbying against the proposed cut to agricultural property relief (APR) and business property relief (BPR) is intensifying. Analysis by the Country Land

www.fwi.co.uk

In essence
“There are significant issues when you are looking at an industry where the return on capital employed is low in any case, and when years are very volatile,” she says.

CLA deputy president Gavin Lane says: “Either the government isn’t being honest with the public about the true impact of these reforms, or they don’t understand the nature of rural businesses.

“I’d like to believe it is the latter and that they are prepared to listen to our input rather than continually trying to dismiss it.

“We are being told this will only affect wealthy and larger landowners. This isn’t true – anyone with over about 250 acres is going to be significantly impacted.




“The return on capital in farming averages about 0.9% and therefore the ability to pay these tax bills out of income is impossible.

“It’s very difficult to find a way that a family farm is going to keep on going if the tax is placed on it in its present state.”

But with the way it can be worked no IHT can be paid on a farm under £3mil due to allowances and behind able to use spouse

If the farm is worth £1mil they wont pay any IHT

A farmer wouldn't be liable to Inheritance tax on a farm valued up to £1m...also there is no inheritance tax on assets (up to £325k ,so that's now £1.325m before tax.

If he's married, his spouse can pass on another £1.325m,bringing the total to £2.65m.

Add onto that the £175,000 tax free allowance when passing on a main residence to a child or grandchild,the total untaxed amount for a married farming couple comes in at £3m.

 

[KenL]

The boring discussion on IHT.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

that is my worry... had it changed at a local garage rather than BMW showroom.. and now it is going to cost me extra

I wouldn't assume a main dealer can do a better job than a specialist outlet. I would return to the tyre place you went, and tell them what youre getting from the car. It may be a faulty TP senser, but it may also be it has also just need attention.
Either way, the tyre will have to come off.
TP sensers are a pain in the arris.

 

[KenL]

I wouldn't assume a main dealer can do a better job than a specialist outlet. I would return to the tyre place you went, and tell them what youre getting from the car. It may be a faulty TP senser, but it may also be it has also just need attention.
Either way, the tyre will have to come off.
TP sensers are a pain in the arris.

I’ve had a few cars with these sensors. All have had new tyres fitted and never had a problem with any.