Handicap System ?

[Bythesea]

I had intended this to be a reply to phiithefraggers post Am I A Bandit but when I got started I realised it is a subject all of it's own.
My question is should any GOLFER get more than one shot per hole?. When I took the game up, a fair while ago!! You were given a H/C of 24. On entering my first Club competition (The Winter League) off 24, I found that within a few weeks I was suffered a series of cuts down to 18. How well I remember remarks like 'We are not giving you all those shots when you can hit a Ladies two iron like that, these were my tee shots, I had not graduated to a wood by then (That a real wood by the way!!) H/C cut in them days were on recommendation of members with whom you had played, and came in two and three shots at a time, they did not like giving two shots per hole to anybody in them days.
Now I would not suggest that some accommodation for beginners should not be given, but I believe it has gone too far, two shots on 10 out of 18 is in my view trying to make the game, like many others these days, easy to win without too much application. The way to be successful is Lessons and Practice as many of the posts to this Forum, by it's members indicate. Golf was never intended to be a game which you could take up today and expect to be a winner next week!!!

 

[DCB]

My question is should any GOLFER get more than one shot per hole?. ​

What if the golfer is not at the standard to only need 18 strokes ? Does this preclude new or struggling golfers from playing competitively ?​

When I took the game up, a fair while ago!! You were given a H/C of 24. ​

Why 'given 24' ? Why not get a handicap that reflected your playing ability at the time of initial allocation ?
​

Whilst I agree it's a game where you need to practice to be at your best, many people would give up if they were at an unfair disadvantage due to silly low handicap allowances.


​

 

[ScienceBoy]

I think a lot of clubs have handicap limits on important competitions, usually 18 or 16.

I really have no problem with the current max handicaps, as long as the person is honest and tries their best then there is no issue.

 

[Marshy77]

Was going to start a new thread but I'll put it in here (if you don't mind). I aren't a member of a club and play on various courses, is there anywhere that you can input your scores for various courses which will work out your handicap or do you have to play the same course to get a proper handicap reading?

 

[jimjoachim]

Was going to start a new thread but I'll put it in here (if you don't mind). I aren't a member of a club and play on various courses, is there anywhere that you can input your scores for various courses which will work out your handicap or do you have to play the same course to get a proper handicap reading?

http://www.golfshake.com/

 

[Marshy77]

http://www.golfshake.com/

Excellent, thank you.

 

[Region3]

I don't see a problem with as many shots is needed to allow a player to be competetive if they play well by their own standards.

What I'd like to see (although don't ask me how) is a method to correct a huge improver faster than it does currently, when they can win 4 or 5 comps relatively easily before it catches up to them.

 

[Bythesea]

DCB thank you for your reply.
Point No 1 (GIVEN ) trying to make the thread short and to the point, but I had to play with a senior member, and then return three cards to receive the then maximum handicap.
Point No 2 The above covers this, but at no time did I suggest that low figures should be applied. The purpose of the thread is to get ideas from the Forum Members who represent a good spectrum of people playing the game, there a challenge folks I am sure you are up to it.

 

[swanny32]

You'll alienate too many people by reducing the maximum handicap to 18 (not that that's what you're saying) and put off people from a)taking up the sport and b) entering competitions which is what being a club player is all about for me.

A new member signed up at our GC last summer and as he didn't know anyone I offered to go out for 9 holes with him. Although he didn't have a handicap let me tell you, he was a loooooong way off playing to 28 let alone 18! I think he was something like 13 or 14 over through 3 holes! He's still at the club as I saw him at the weekend playing with someone, so I decided to watch him off the 1st tee and he's still swinging the same way probably with the same results, whether or not he has an official handicap now I don't know but if he has there is no way it's going to be anything other than 28. Putting someone like him off 18 would destroy the kid, shatter his confidence and give him little to no enthusiasm to play in competitions knowing that he'd probably need double that to be competitive.

 

[Mike_j_golf]

I think there has to be a better solution, i think there should be a review every month for the first season. Put in your 3 cards get your handicap same as now but then have a look at the person every 3 cards say. So if they start off on 28 fine but if there next 3 cards suggest they should be off 20 than adjust them to that.
Under the current systen if a 28 handicapper is playing to 20 shooting 44 points he only gets cut to 25 meaning the next day he can go out and shoot 42 points only getting him cut to 23 at that stage i think he should have his handicap adjusted to 20.
I would only use this for the first year as this is when the biggest improvments come as people get used to playing in comps.
Mike

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I don't see a problem with as many shots is needed to allow a player to be competetive if they play well by their own standards.

What I'd like to see (although don't ask me how) is a method to correct a huge improver faster than it does currently, when they can win 4 or 5 comps relatively easily before it catches up to them.

CONGU have actually introduced a new thing this year ghat means any player who scores -4 or lower has their scores monitored for further scores of -4 or lower in quick succession which will trigger a recommendation to reduce that players h'cap. I assume this will be built in to h'cap software. The comittee can choose not to reduce the h'cap but at very least rapidly improving players should be flagged up.

Personally I would think the h'cap comittee would be aware of such players since they are usually the talk of the clubhouse but now they will get a nudge

 

[USER1999]

Should some one who started playing yesterday be competitive though? Surely it should take some time to learn the basic skills in order to be able to compete. On the continent, handicaps can go up to about 50 I think. Where do you stop?
If I took up tennis, squash, etc, then there would be a period where I was uncompetitive whilst I learned the game.
Why is it that with golf, you take it up, and are straight away given a handicap you can compete off? What is the real drive to improve your game if you can already win?

 

[GreiginFife]

My father-in-law is a Pro based out in Frankfurt and he was telling me that their handicap system goes up to 30 (I think it was) but the Germans have to pass a "proficiency" test before they are let loose on the course whereby they are assigned 30 as their start level regardless of ability.
Not sure if he was pulling my leg but it does sound like a Continental thing to do.

 

[connor]

I play off 27.2 and I struggle! I practice I've had lessons I jus seem to suck lol but I love the game!
Why because I'm not as good as others should I be penalised for it? I've never win or come near winning a comp so I'm certainly no bandit.
I think if someone turned round to me and said you play off 18or you don't play at all I would of prob given up! I play as I like the challenge of getting better and a lower h/c. I have played in 3/4hc comps and done ok finishing with 25points and was pleased being I played off a lower handicap.
If a low handicap player doesn't want to play with me as they are better than me not a problem just don't bother speaking to me in the club house either as I think your arrogant! Perhaps if lower h/c players gave us hackers more time or advice we may improve and possibly even be accepted lol I never viewed a high hc as being a social leppar but to some players that seems to be the case

 

[Foxholer]

If a low handicap player doesn't want to play with me as they are better than me not a problem just don't bother speaking to me in the club house either as I think your arrogant! Perhaps if lower h/c players gave us hackers more time or advice we may improve and possibly even be accepted lol I never viewed a high hc as being a social leppar but to some players that seems to be the case

Agree to much of this. Though advice-giving can be fraught with problems (better to 'Go See a Pro').

Main reason for lower cappers to avoib high-cappers is the disruption to their game that searching for balls etc that can occur (less so at your course).

I've never had a problem either playing with or against high-cappers. Happy to give 'try this' type advice if asked. Would never try to teach though as not qualified - though might make observations. Never had a problem playing against legit high-cappers as I take the view that it's either 'one of those days' when things just click or 'his/her game will eventually collapse'.

Really haven't seen many instances where high cappers have won several comps without deserving it - by putting in the practice. As mentioned above, the recently introduced Exceptional Score clause should overcome any 'reduction not fast enough' issues. Now all that's needed is the converse of that - the can't go up fast enough solution (specially for Seniors).

 

[Jezzer777]

I know a few genuine 28 handicappers and they do need two shots on ten holes but it's still galling when they get a par on a two shot hole. I once played matchplay against a lady golfer and had to give her 20 shots on a nine hole course forshortened by temp winter tees and greens, that was a real killer - recall one par three of about 100 yds where i had to get a hole in one for a half.

 

[DaveM]

Must admit the H/c system has always puzzled me to. Why you should be rewarded for being bad at it! Cannot think of any other sport that does that. I use to do a lot of match fishing. When I was new to it I was not given a 20 fish start. No you payed your money and took your chance. Took me a while to start winning. But when I was winning every other week or so. It was by the skills I learnt, not handed on a plate with a H/c. I would be happy to see everyone off scratch. Then if you do ever get good enough to win, it has some meaning.

I expect to now be shot down in flames. .

 

[Achilles]

When I took up the game about 3 years ago, the three cards I put in were all 110+. Handicap given was unsurprisingly 28. Now for me, entering a competition knowing I couldn't even play to that, was extremely intimidating. I slowly improved and was able to shoot mid 90's in bounce games, but just couldn't do it in comps. Eventually I got my first cut and my handicap dropped from 28 to 22 in three months. I won a few comps during those few months, but that was down to a helluva lot of practice, lessons and hard work. I haven't won one since. If I'd been given an 18 handicap I don't know what I would've done. This game is hard enough as it is, with lot of barriers in the way for newbies. If I had the option of taking up the game knowing I would be unable to compete simply down to lack of experience, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Forget about the new players. What about the older guys too who may have played below this "magic 18" mark for many years but now through age, etc have risen to 19, 20 and above. Why should they be penalised. Our SI 1-3 are all very long and hard holes for most players but there is no way any of the senior golfers can make the green in two and on SI 1 and 3 in particular it is still three good shots to be on the green. They need the extra shots they are entitled to off their playing mark. If you put them back off 18 for comps you are going to end up with fields of the same 20-30 players every week as those who are higher than 18 won't play in an event they aren't going to have a chance to win

 

[rosecott]

What about the older guys too who may have played below this "magic 18" mark for many years but now through age, etc have risen to 19, 20 and above.

On Tuesday I had the pleasure of playing with our "Senior Statesman" who was 91 last month. At one stage of his golfing history he played off 11. Now he still enjoys playing twice a week and still has the competitive urge - he has had several chops in the last 2 years and rotates between 25 and 27. Our wonderful game of golf still allows him to play with players a third of his age and he can still show them how it can be done. Would anyone deny him the right to carry on competing until he decides enough is enough?

My avatar, by the way is the very man - a very long time ago.