Gender Free/Neutral Tees

[sweaty sock]

It is recommended that par be established for each hole in accordance with the following hole lengths:
Par ....... Men ................... ........Women
3 ........ Up to 260 yards ...........Up to 220 yards
4 ........ 200 to 490 yards .........200 to 420 yards
5 .........450 to 710 yards .........370 to 600 yards
6 ........ 670 yards and up ........570 yards and up


......old man
......up to 195
......195 to 325
.....325 to 440
.....440 yards and above

There would seem to be a misunderstanding of the difference between Par and Course Rating although hole length has a major impact on both.
Certainly Course Rating has nothing to do with pro or scratch amateur golf. But nor does Par really. It is only a convenient way of comparing relative scores as they progress through the round or competition.

Added the proposal....

 

[wjemather]

Off topic, it does puzzle me how a golf hole can be a different Par depending on tee used. I mean if its long enough to be a Par 5 surely it’s a par 5 from any tee, or it isn't from any

I recall a course where a certain hole is par 4 from yellows, par 5 from white and par 5 from the red… what’s that all about!

Interestingly, "standardising par" is part of the WHS (& Course Rating) update in GB&I for next year - it will allow clubs to make holes the same par from all sets of tees regardless of whether the length falls within the standard yardage brackets for all of them (there would still be differences between genders).

Of course, par is completely irrelevant in regular stroke play (medal) and match play.

 

[Slab]

Interestingly, "standardising par" is part of the WHS (& Course Rating) update in GB&I for next year - it will allow clubs to make holes the same par from all sets of tees regardless of whether the length falls within the standard yardage brackets for all of them (there would still be differences between genders).

Of course, par is completely irrelevant in regular stroke play (medal) and match play.

Ta, the more i think about this hole I wonder if it was simply to allow the course to describe itself as a par71 or maybe more likely its to give it 2 x par 5's, otherwise there'd only be one
(the 'white' teeing area has definitely been shoehorned into the landscape, in the firing line of fades/slices from the tee of another hole, so the hole length from yellow is obviously more natural)

 

[Swango1980]

I understand the minimum length V Par aspect (& for M/F) I just don’t understand the rational why yellows wouldn’t be brought closer to the white (& above the 470 min) making it a Par 5 for both the men’s rated tees, its just a grassed area between the two prepared areas

Probably, in the main, simply because the people that run the course want different sets of tees to almost present a much different challenge. Make things different, rather than simply one set of tees being a bit longer than another set of tees.

There may be other holes where it wouldn't make too much sense to do what you suggest. For example, off the back tees it may be 260 yads to a large penalty area and well over 300 yards to carry it, and from the start of the penalty area 300 yards to green. So, it is an obvious par 5, where virtually everyone had to lay up, and cannot get to the green in 2. You could put the yellow tees slightly closer, but would there be much point? Maybe it is only 250 yards to water and 300 yards or so to carry, but you still have to play it the same way. Bigger hitters may just take one less club off the tee. So, perhaps the club decide they want to put the yellow tee 100 yards further forward, making it 160 yards to water and just over 200 yards carry. They can then turn it into a par 4 rather than a par 5.

Not to mention the fact that all sets of tees can now be rated for men and women, and there are clubs doing just this. I've been at clubs, including my own, where the red tees can be considerably further forward than the yellows. And some clubs have reds, yellows, whites, blues, blacks, etc. With so many tees, you can find that the distance between them on some holes can be considerable.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I guess it might be more interesting if a person wanted to identify sometimes as a male, and sometimes as a female. After all, they can only have one handicap. Or does the system allow for a person to have a male and a female handicap?

The member record on WHS is set to male or female and can only be changed by England Golf. Hence, you can't chop and change!

 

[Alan Clifford]

It is recommended that par be established for each hole in accordance with the following hole lengths:
Par ....... Men ................... ........Women
3 ........ Up to 260 yards ...........Up to 220 yards
4 ........ 200 to 490 yards .........200 to 420 yards
5 .........450 to 710 yards .........370 to 600 yards
6 ........ 670 yards and up ........570 yards and up

There would seem to be a misunderstanding of the difference between Par and Course Rating although hole length has a major impact on both.
Certainly Course Rating has nothing to do with pro or scratch amateur golf. But nor does Par really. It is only a convenient way of comparing relative scores as they progress through the round or competition.

Is that for young men or for old men? Similarly for the womem.

 

[Backache]

Is that for young men or for old men? Similarly for the womem.

Coffin dodgers can use forward tees can't they?

 

[Alan Clifford]

Coffin dodgers can use forward tees can't they?

Yes, I do. But the point is, if there are separate ratings for women, why aren't there separate ratings for coffin dodgers? It just doesn't make sense to have one without the other.

 

[rulefan]

Yes, I do. But the point is, if there are separate ratings for women, why aren't there separate ratings for coffin dodgers? It just doesn't make sense to have one without the other.

The distance one hits doesn't always relate to age. 15 years after starting to play I could hit further than when I started.
But physical bone structure and muscularity is inherently related to gender.

 

[Backache]

Yes, I do. But the point is, if there are separate ratings for women, why aren't there separate ratings for coffin dodgers? It just doesn't make sense to have one without the other.

I'm a fellow coffin dodger and still hit it considerably further than my Mrs.

 

[Swango1980]

Backache may be in a Hugh Hefner type marriage though

 

[Slab]

You guys realise women get old too, yeah?

My wife doesn't

 

[sweaty sock]

You guys realise women get old too, yeah?

Good point well made.

 

[Alan Clifford]

You guys realise women get old too, yeah?

Someone is one the cusp of getting it. If you split the population into two groups, you then need to further divide. It just doesn't make sense to do any of it. Just let the handicap system work.

 

[rulefan]

If you split the population into two groups, you then need to further divide.

Why?