Dress code and BAME

[dufferman]

I agree with Canary_Yellow entirely. The respect part of taking ones hat off indoors is something that isn't common knowledge - I didn't know why I had to do it, and I don't believe many people do. So why still do it?

I'm not picking a fight, but if rules were reviewed once every 10 years, I fear the reasoning behind taking hats off in the clubhouse may well have long became irrelevant:

"Let's look at the hat in clubhouse rule"
"Ok, why do we have it?"
"So we are aware that we are not talking to our enemy hiding behind a mask"
"...Ok, I think we can let that one go now. I haven't encountered an enemy in the clubhouse for well over 10 years, nor have I encountered a man who's face is entirely covered by some sort of war-mask"

Bringing it back to the OP too - these rules were put in place at a time when 'BAME' golfers were not in existence, therefor the rules should be looked at as part of our changing society, surely?

Whilst all that is said, I'm not saying I will defiantly keep my hat on to stick it to the man when in the clubhouse. However I do agree with Lord Tyrion in that my generation will let the hat rule slip when we're the rule makers.

'Cos I'm young and cool

 

[patricks148]

I agree with Canary_Yellow entirely. The respect part of taking ones hat off indoors is something that isn't common knowledge - I didn't know why I had to do it, and I don't believe many people do. So why still do it?

I'm not picking a fight, but if rules were reviewed once every 10 years, I fear the reasoning behind taking hats off in the clubhouse may well have long became irrelevant:

"Let's look at the hat in clubhouse rule"
"Ok, why do we have it?"
"So we are aware that we are not talking to our enemy hiding behind a mask"
"...Ok, I think we can let that one go now. I haven't encountered an enemy in the clubhouse for well over 10 years, nor have I encountered a man who's face is entirely covered by some sort of war-mask"

Bringing it back to the OP too - these rules were put in place at a time when 'BAME' golfers were not in existence, therefor the rules should be looked at as part of our changing society, surely?

Whilst all that is said, I'm not saying I will defiantly keep my hat on to stick it to the man when in the clubhouse. However I do agree with Lord Tyrion in that my generation will let the hat rule slip when we're the rule makers.

'Cos I'm young and cool

its called manners, do you also eat with your elbows on the table and talk with your mouth full??

And as for being young and cool, you forget your fizzog has been in the mag a number of times and you are neither young or cool

 

[Canary_Yellow]

its called manners, do you also eat with your elbows on the table and talk with your mouth full??

And as for being young and cool, you forget your fizzog has been in the mag a number of times and you are neither young or cool

To be fair to Dufferman, he is young.

 

[bluewolf]

To be fair to Dufferman, he is young.

Lol...

Wouldn't bother me if you kept your hat on.. How anyone acts is their own decision in life.. I wouldn't judge anyone based on silly little things like hats... Unless they wore a baseball cap backwards.. Then they're just chavvy scum...

 

[Hacker Khan]

I agree with Canary_Yellow entirely. The respect part of taking ones hat off indoors is something that isn't common knowledge - I didn't know why I had to do it, and I don't believe many people do. So why still do it?

I'm not picking a fight, but if rules were reviewed once every 10 years, I fear the reasoning behind taking hats off in the clubhouse may well have long became irrelevant:

"Let's look at the hat in clubhouse rule"
"Ok, why do we have it?"
"So we are aware that we are not talking to our enemy hiding behind a mask"
"...Ok, I think we can let that one go now. I haven't encountered an enemy in the clubhouse for well over 10 years, nor have I encountered a man who's face is entirely covered by some sort of war-mask"

Bringing it back to the OP too - these rules were put in place at a time when 'BAME' golfers were not in existence, therefor the rules should be looked at as part of our changing society, surely?

Whilst all that is said, I'm not saying I will defiantly keep my hat on to stick it to the man when in the clubhouse. However I do agree with Lord Tyrion in that my generation will let the hat rule slip when we're the rule makers.

'Cos I'm young and cool

After seeing your pink and blue shirt/trousers combination in the pages of a certain golf magazine driver fitting, I wouldn't be so sure of the cool bit mate

 

[dufferman]

TO ALL CONCERNED:

I AM YOUNG AND COOL!

I almost spelt it 'kool' but had to restrain myself. oo:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and taking ones headgear off isn't a rule - it's a sign of respect and courtesy for your hosts or where you are. Seems a good reason to maintain that convention. Why should it be that a visible sign of respect and courtesy goes 'out of fashion'. Actually this like many things seems more to do with a 'me, myself, I' attitude than something going out of fashion. As in 'why should I take my hat off if I don't want to'. Well that attitude is fine but sometimes it's not the best.

And I will continue to ask my 22yr old to remove his baseball cap or beanie whenever he is anywhere indoors with me, What he does when by himself is up to him - but maybe he'll understand and do it himself.

[Aside] A bit like how my lad is grateful that we showed him how to hold a knife and fork properly and made sure that he and his sister always did so when eating with us. You might not think that today's 20-somethings would be that bothered about this sort of thing - but in fact they can be as they now appreciate that it does signify something about them

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Blimey the army is in trouble if keeping your hat on inside is consider rude !

We always used to get in trouble with the Army if we werent wearing our beret inside whilst walking to offices etc

Even whilst driving your car they expect you to wear your beret.

Life has moved on and with does habits and how people show respect

Being worried about someone wearing a hat inside or holding the fork the right way ( didn't know there was a wrong ) - are just not worth worrying about now - the world has moved on and there are bigger worries in life yo deal with

 

[Hacker Khan]

...and taking ones headgear off isn't a rule - it's a sign of respect and courtesy for your hosts or where you are. Seems a good reason to maintain that convention. Why should it be that a visible sign of respect and courtesy goes 'out of fashion'. Actually this like many things seems more to do with a 'me, myself, I' attitude than something going out of fashion. As in 'why should I take my hat off if I don't want to'. Well that attitude is fine but sometimes it's not the best.

And I will continue to ask my 22yr old to remove his baseball cap or beanie whenever he is anywhere indoors with me, What he does when by himself is up to him - but maybe he'll understand and do it himself.

[Aside] A bit like how my lad is grateful that we showed him how to hold a knife and fork properly and made sure that he and his sister always did so when eating with us. You might not think that today's 20-somethings would be that bothered about this sort of thing - but in fact they can be as they now appreciate that it does signify something about them

Nothing wrong with showing courtesy and respect, something a few of us seem to forget on this board. Sometimes I'm guilty as charged my lud.

But the problem comes when a large proportion of the population don't seem to understand why it is not courteous to do such a thing. Things like this go out of fashion and are replaced by other things and golf, indeed any pass time, needs to keep up with what the vast majority of the population understand.

As a governor of a school I know that, believe it or not, kids are taught to be courteous and respectful a lot nowadays, especially at primary level. But the behaviours they are taught don't extend to taking of hats as it just doesn't mean anything to them. It's basically an old persons thing. Which is fine if you want to just attract old people, but if not then some relaxing of these kind of traditions (and it is actually a rule in a lot of golf clubs) is not a bad thing in my book.

Again it's probably a lot of scaremongering over nothing as not many people would want to wear a hat in a golf club, but I can't see any reason why, if they want to for whatever reason, the golf club has the right to stop them. yet again goes back the point I always make about treating people like adults, and generally they will behave like adults. Give them lots of rules, some of which just seem to belong in a by gone age, and they'll feel they are back at school.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We're another club where hats in the bar aren't allowed, even for the women although to and from the locker room to the loo or pro shop is fine. It's about trying to keep a level of standard and I've no problem if that's what the rules dictate.

As for the OP anything that gets anyone into golf irrespective of race colour or creed has to be applauded. I've never had an issue with anyone wearing anything for religious grounds on a course and had a marvellous day at West Hill with LIG (sorry to single you out LIG).

 

[richart]

Why would anyone want to wear a hat in the clubhouse ? Hats are for outdoors, keep you warm, keep you cool, sun out of your eyes, whatever. Surely no one is wearing one as a fashion statement.

 

[Spartacus]

As for the OP anything that gets anyone into golf irrespective of race colour or creed has to be applauded. I've never had an issue with anyone wearing anything for religious grounds on a course and had a marvellous day at West Hill with LIG (sorry to single you out LIG).

All I asked was for opinions on dress codes. There's a huge difference between LIG wearing his turban and a female golfer wearing her burka so please don't use LIG as an example of religion and suitable attire.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

All I asked was for opinions on dress codes. There's a huge difference between LIG wearing his turban and a female golfer wearing her burka so please don't use LIG as an example of religion and suitable attire.

And attached an article about trying to get Asian golfers (in particular) into golf and there may be some that have beliefs so I think it was a fair comment.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

And attached an article about trying to get Asian golfers (in particular) into golf and there may be some that have beliefs so I think it was a fair comment.

Although I am (more than) partly to blame in this thread getting side tracked into a debate about the social ettiquette of hat wearing, the wearing of a turban isn't directly relevant to the OP as it's possible to wear a turban and comply with a golf club dress code.

Unless I'm mistaken, the OP was more to do with allowing dress codes to be breached.

 

[Spartacus]

Would you have fun playing against 2 burka wearing female golfers, in say a club match against the ladies section?

Do people think the rules will be relaxed in order to introduce religious golfers to the game?

No shirts untucked, no hats inside, no black socks (despite wearing black shoes) but burkas acceptable.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would you have fun playing against 2 burka wearing female golfers, in say a club match against the ladies section?

Do people think the rules will be relaxed in order to introduce religious golfers to the game?

No shirts untucked, no hats inside, no black socks (despite wearing black shoes) but burkas acceptable.

What the ladies are wearing wouldnt designate if the ladies were fun to play golf with - how they interact would be the guiding of that.

As far as im aware religious golfers already play the game ?

Whats wrong with allowing Burkhas ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Would you have fun playing against 2 burka wearing female golfers, in say a club match against the ladies section?

Do people think the rules will be relaxed in order to introduce religious golfers to the game?

No shirts untucked, no hats inside, no black socks (despite wearing black shoes) but burkas acceptable.

I'd have no issue. As long as they were decent company, respected etiquette and pace of play was good. I don't know that rules have to be relaxed. When you pay a green fee or join a club I believe you are agreeing to comply with the dress code of that course.

 

[Spartacus]

If religious golfers already play the game then it's quite obvious they can't be introduced.

Maybe, for those who find things difficult to understand, I should have said BAME religious golfers. Oh, hang on a mo, I did in my OP!

 

[sev112]

I think it might be more courteous were certain people to keep their hair under a cap, indoors and out

But who as it who said they were telling a 22 yr old what to do .....? They are an adult , let them choose how they want to act /wear etc. the whole world is full of long held grudges based on perceived slights from one person to another. let's live and let live and stop getting hung up on how people perceive each other based on hats, clothes, elbow use during dinner, etc and instead how about using something radical instead, like how they behave to you !?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If religious golfers already play the game then it's quite obvious they can't be introduced.

Maybe, for those who find things difficult to understand, I should have said BAME religious golfers. Oh, hang on a mo, I did in my OP!

Ok I'm not sure what the issue is ?

If someone is required to wear a burka for religious reasons then I don't see that as an issue as we are very tolerant to various religions in this country