CONGU, WHS and Rule E5

[cliveb]

It will depend on the best 8 of your last 20 rounds and the SSS (not par) of the tees you played

Is that true? Is the initial WHS index going to be calculated based on differentials from the (old) SSS?
I had - perhaps naively - assumed that they would be calculated with differentials from CR (which I appreciate is going to be virtually the same as SSS), but also taking slope rating into account.

 

[Swango1980]

Is that true? Is the initial WHS index going to be calculated based on differentials from the (old) SSS?
I had - perhaps naively - assumed that they would be calculated with differentials from CR (which I appreciate is going to be virtually the same as SSS), but also taking slope rating into account.

I think that is what Rulefan meant. CR will be the new SSS so to speak (but to a decimal place). So, I believe if you want to work out your handicap index now, you can use the current SSS as you probably don't have CR

 

[cliveb]

I think that is what Rulefan meant. CR will be the new SSS so to speak (but to a decimal place). So, I believe if you want to work out your handicap index now, you can use the current SSS as you probably don't have CR

The CR v SSS bit isn't really the important part of my question. My understanding is that to work out a WHS index you need to know the slope as well as the CR (aka SSS).

 

[Swango1980]

The CR v SSS bit isn't really the important part of my question. My understanding is that to work out a WHS index you need to know the slope as well as the CR (aka SSS).

I was under the impression you only need the slope to get the playing handicap, not the index. The index is based on your adjusted gross scores and the difference with CR, then getting your best 8 and averaging. In terms of setting our first WHS handicap, I presume it will be done using CR rather than SSS, as we will all have CR by then.

This is only my understanding on it. I'm slowly picking up on it from this forum.

 

[rulefan]

Sorry, I was oversimplifying when I wrote SSS. It is of course the CR. If your course has been rated it is in fact the same figure but to 1 dec. If it hasn't yet been done it should be done in time. But if it is not rated in time it will be given a temporary CR and a 'standard' slope of 125 (the average in GB&I).
Just to confirm the rest of the conversion process. It will take the 8 best of the last 20 Differentials (ie Gross - CR) and average them to produce your Handicap Index (HI) (to 1 dec).

It isn't until you play, that Course and Playing Handicap come into it.
Your Course Handicap (CH) is calculated from the HI, CR and Slope Rating (SR) by the formula CH = HI * (SR / 113)
Your Playing Handicap is your Course Handicap * handicap allowance (eg 95% for singles stroke play)

There are three 'handicaps' as it were:
Handicap Index, which you carry with you everywhere
Course Handicap, which relates specifically to the course and tees you are about to play
Playing Handicap which is adjusted according the format you are playing and any adjustment for mixed tee competitions.

 

[cliveb]

Just to confirm the rest of the conversion process. It will take the 8 best of the last 20 Differentials (ie Gross - CR) and average them to produce your Handicap Index (HI) (to 1 dec).

I think you've missed out a vital aspect. The differential is your *DE-SLOPED* gross - CR.
The slope rating is critical in calculating your HCP index.
This was explained to me by you and Colin in another thread.

 

[rulefan]

I think you've missed out a vital aspect. The differential is your *DE-SLOPED* gross - CR.
The slope rating is critical in calculating your HCP index.
This was explained to me by you and Colin in another thread.

Well spotted I'm glad someone was paying attention. I was trying to keep it simple but as you say it really is vital. NB the difference re CR & CSS

It will take the 8 best of the last 20 Score Differentials and average them to produce your Handicap Index (HI) (to 1 dec).
In the case of the conversion the Score Differential is the difference between the player's gross score and the CSS (rather than CR) taking account of the SR.
SD = (113 / SR) * (Gross - CR)

 

[Swango1980]

Well spotted I'm glad someone was paying attention. I was trying to keep it simple but as you say it really is vital. NB the difference re CR & CSS

It will take the 8 best of the last 20 Score Differentials and average them to produce your Handicap Index (HI) (to 1 dec).
In the case of the conversion the Score Differential is the difference between the player's gross score and the CSS (rather than CR) taking account of the SR.
SD = (113 / SR) * (Gross - CR)

Have I done this correctly to work out my Handicap Index:

The average of my 8 best rounds of last 20 is 77.6 (once all scores rounded down to nett double bogey)
Course Rating is 69.4
Slope is 133

So, Handicap Index = (113 / 133) * (77.6 - 69.4) = 7.0

 

[Swango1980]

Also, interestingly, I worked out my mate would have a handicap index of 6.5, giving him a course handicap at our place of 7.7. However, it just so happened that, 21 rounds ago he shot a course record. So, had he not played his last round, and therefore that course record would have counted, his handicap index would be 5.4 and course handicap of 6.3. So, basically, as soon as he played that last round, his course handicap immediately jumped up by 1.4.

It's interesting that you can get quite a significant jump after 1 competition. I know there will be something in place to remember good scores, but I wonder how this will operate. His course record was about 9 months ago, so will there be a time limit on it. If it does remember a good score from over 20 rounds ago, does it "forget" a bad score in the last 20 to compensate, and then remember it again once it does decide to forget the good score after a certain time?

 

[patricks148]

I watch plenty of golf, I caddy and you are talking nonsense if you think "elite" players do not hang about, especially at national level.

i would tend to agree dear boy, we have had Boys Am and home internationals and Curtis cup in recent years and i would describe much of what i saw as ..... slow

 

[Jacko_G]

Also, interestingly, I worked out my mate would have a handicap index of 6.5, giving him a course handicap at our place of 7.7. However, it just so happened that, 21 rounds ago he shot a course record. So, had he not played his last round, and therefore that course record would have counted, his handicap index would be 5.4 and course handicap of 6.3. So, basically, as soon as he played that last round, his course handicap immediately jumped up by 1.4.

It's interesting that you can get quite a significant jump after 1 competition. I know there will be something in place to remember good scores, but I wonder how this will operate. His course record was about 9 months ago, so will there be a time limit on it. If it does remember a good score from over 20 rounds ago, does it "forget" a bad score in the last 20 to compensate, and then remember it again once it does decide to forget the good score after a certain time?

That is worrying. In theory I could have a tie to play next week and go out this week and put in a 96, 92, and 95 to increase my handicap? Golf is full of bandits and cheats as it is.

 

[patricks148]

That is worrying. In theory I could have a tie to play next week and go out this week and put in a 96, 92, and 95 to increase my handicap? Golf is full of bandits and cheats as it is.

could work in your favour though, due to play a well known bandit??, stick in a handfull of crap scores get yourself up a few shots to soften the blow

 

[Jacko_G]

could work in your favour though, due to play a well known bandit??, stick in a handfull of crap scores get yourself up a few shots to soften the blow

Not really in the spirit though old bean. My cravat wouldn't sit right in the lounge afterwards knowing I had done that!

(Then again the way I'm currently playing a 96 isn't that far off the agenda - its all the drivers fault!)

 

[Deleted member 3432]

That is worrying. In theory I could have a tie to play next week and go out this week and put in a 96, 92, and 95 to increase my handicap? Golf is full of bandits and cheats as it is.

Wide open for manipulation the new system by the look of things..

I can see myself winning a shed load of comps when this change comes in. Not Through hcap manipulation I will add before anyone jumps in but just the outcome of a couple of seasons of crap golf.

Could be the first man to go from cat 1 to cat 4 in one go......

 

[patricks148]

Wide open for manipulation the new system by the look of things..

I can see myself winning a shed load of comps when this change comes in. Not Through hcap manipulation I will add before anyone jumps in but just the outcome of a couple of seasons of crap golf.

Could be the first man to go from cat 1 to cat 5 in one go......

corrected that for you

 

[Deleted member 3432]

corrected that for you

I hope not

 

[rulefan]

That is worrying. In theory I could have a tie to play next week and go out this week and put in a 96, 92, and 95 to increase my handicap? Golf is full of bandits and cheats as it is.

Would they be in the best 8 of your last 20 scores?

 

[rulefan]

Also, interestingly, I worked out my mate would have a handicap index of 6.5, giving him a course handicap at our place of 7.7. However, it just so happened that, 21 rounds ago he shot a course record. So, had he not played his last round, and therefore that course record would have counted, his handicap index would be 5.4 and course handicap of 6.3. So, basically, as soon as he played that last round, his course handicap immediately jumped up by 1.4.

It's interesting that you can get quite a significant jump after 1 competition. I know there will be something in place to remember good scores, but I wonder how this will operate. His course record was about 9 months ago, so will there be a time limit on it. If it does remember a good score from over 20 rounds ago, does it "forget" a bad score in the last 20 to compensate, and then remember it again once it does decide to forget the good score after a certain time?

I'm not sure that a significant jump would occur very often in an averaging system.

There is a 'good score' memory (Low Handicap Index) which lasts 365 days back from the date the last scoring record was posted. This reduces the amount the handicap index can go up after a run of bad scores.

 

[Swango1980]

Would they be in the best 8 of your last 20 scores?

Potentially, if they removed very good scores from 20, 19 and 18 rounds ago? Especially if they were played outside the time frame in which the system remembers very good scores?

 

[Jacko_G]

Would they be in the best 8 of your last 20 scores?

So every adjustment is an average of your best last 8?