CONGU, WHS and Rule E5

[YandaB]

If everything is moving towards WHS next year, what is the future for CONGU? Their main aim is stated as "We develop and maintain a Golf Handicapping System that provides CONGU® Handicaps for all players of the Clubs affiliated to the National Unions and Associations" which is surely gone once we move to WHS?

If that is the case then what happens to the current recommendation from them that clubs should not implement Local Rule E5 (the one about dropping a ball on the fairway if it is lost or OOB rather than playing a provisional) for handicap rounds? I know that our club have not implemented it at all.

It feels like it is one more step on the way to harmonising everything everywhere (which is fine in my opinion, it's supposed to be one sport).

 

[rulefan]

As yet, CONGU has made no mention of it. Originally they said they were waiting to see how it panned out but if no one could use it I don't know how they would know. I reckon they were just waiting for WHS to make the decision for them. To the best of my knowledge it is acceptable everywhere else in the world if the committee want to use it.

 

[jim8flog]

We formed a sub committee to discuss all the available LRs that formed part of the 2019 rules and there was not one person on the committee in favour of implementing E5. It was felt that far too many players would not apply it properly coupled with the fact there are several holes on course where it could not be implemented anyway due to course layout.

 

[Swango1980]

We formed a sub committee to discuss all the available LRs that formed part of the 2019 rules and there was not one person on the committee in favour of implementing E5. It was felt that far too many players would not apply it properly coupled with the fact there are several holes on course where it could not be implemented anyway due to course layout.

I agree. I hate that rule, especially as it is not used at Elite level. Why have one rule for us, but not for them? I also agree that there could be some very flexible interpretations as to how it is applied by different people. Finally, it is very very rare in my experience that a player has to walk all the way back to where they last played a shot anyway, that's what a provisional is for. Maybe it happens in 1 in 10 rounds, or maybe even less frequently.

 

[robinthehood]

I agree. I hate that rule, especially as it is not used at Elite level. Why have one rule for us, but not for them? I also agree that there could be some very flexible interpretations as to how it is applied by different people. Finally, it is very very rare in my experience that a player has to walk all the way back to where they last played a shot anyway, that's what a provisional is for. Maybe it happens in 1 in 10 rounds, or maybe even less frequently.

You're missing the point... If the rule were available there are holes where I'd use it instead of a provisional.
Tee shot oob? I'll just drop for 3 thanks than put my next oob or in the rough on the opposite side.

 

[Swango1980]

You're missing the point... If the rule were available there are holes where I'd use it instead of a provisional.
Tee shot oob? I'll just drop for 3 thanks than put my next oob or in the rough on the opposite side.

That's not missing the point, in fact you are supplementing my point very well. Us golfers avoiding the same fate that could happen at the elite level, because we have an option unavailable to them. Anyway, there is no need to fear playing a provisional. Everybody knows that every provisional ball ever hit it hit purely down the middle

 

[robinthehood]

That's not missing the point, in fact you are supplementing my point very well. Us golfers avoiding the same fate that could happen at the elite level, because we have an option unavailable to them. Anyway, there is no need to fear playing a provisional. Everybody knows that every provisional ball ever hit it hit purely down the middle

That's why it's a local rule....

 

[Swango1980]

That's why it's a local rule....

Hmmmm, yes. I know. At least we can agree on that point.

 

[rulefan]

IMO it is not recommended for elite (ie better than county level eg Brabazon or pro) because a provisional is quicker if played immediately and top players are most unlikely to play a poor provisional.
At the club level it is fine in principle. Player hits a medium iron into the trees. Looks for it and can't find it in the shorter grass and is sure it is in the deep jungle. Unplayable would be impossible. Goes sideways and drops for 2 strokes. No time lost.
However, it is too complicated in practice and open to all sorts of dodgy decisions.
I did a new rules class for our members and tried this on them. I used a marked out carpet to demonstrate on but the attendees, who initially welcomed the idea, overwhelmingly rejected it as 'not worth the bother' afterwards.

 

[Beedee]

Has anyone any idea about whether the rule has been widely adopted in non-CONGU world?

I must admit I was, and still am, a fan of the rule. One of the society's I play in has adopted the rule. The biggest problem is people forget we allow it as an option. Once it's explained to them, we've had no particular problems. I'm not aware of any mickey-taking going on when applying the rule.

I thought CONGU's line of "we'll see how it goes, but we'll also make sure no-one in the UK will ever use it first" was reprehensible.

 

[Jacko_G]

That's not missing the point, in fact you are supplementing my point very well. Us golfers avoiding the same fate that could happen at the elite level, because we have an option unavailable to them. Anyway, there is no need to fear playing a provisional. Everybody knows that every provisional ball ever hit it hit purely down the middle

You are missing the point. The point that it is now acceptable under the rules of golf means that if implemented it can be used. Its not really any different than dropping out if a bunker to avoid a cricket score in my opinion.

 

[Jacko_G]

IMO it is not recommended for elite (ie better than county level eg Brabazon or pro) because a provisional is quicker if played immediately and top players are most unlikely to play a poor provisional.
At the club level it is fine in principle. Player hits a medium iron into the trees. Looks for it and can't find it in the shorter grass and is sure it is in the deep jungle. Unplayable would be impossible. Goes sideways and drops for 2 strokes. No time lost.
However, it is too complicated in practice and open to all sorts of dodgy decisions.
I did a new rules class for our members and tried this on them. I used a marked out carpet to demonstrate on but the attendees, who initially welcomed the idea, overwhelmingly rejected it as 'not worth the bother' afterwards.

I find that decision absolutely bizarre and it shows how out of sorts people who run golf are.

So if a scratch golfer hits it into the trees they just immediately reach into their golf bag pull another ball and hit? Absolute tosh. They wait till they're focused again, they clean the club face, decide if they are going to stick with the same club or play safer, they go through their whole pre shot routine again, and then hit. I can guarantee that they will also go and look for the first ball to see if they can find it/play it - so how is that quicker?

 

[Swango1980]

You are missing the point. The point that it is now acceptable under the rules of golf means that if implemented it can be used. Its not really any different than dropping out if a bunker to avoid a cricket score in my opinion.

I think you've gone a bit too far with the "missing the point" phrase. Because I do not disagree with anything in your statement. I know it may he implemented as part of the rules. Doesn't mean I have to be a fan of it though.

 

[rulefan]

I find that decision absolutely bizarre and it shows how out of sorts people who run golf are.

So is a scratch golfer hits it into the trees they just immediately reach into their golf bag pull another ball and hit? Absolute tosh. They wait till they're focused again, they clean the club face, decide if they are going to stick with the same club or play safer, they go through their whole pre shot routine again, and then hit. I can guarantee that they will also go and look for the first ball to see if they can find it/play it - so how is that quicker?

I don't know how often you referee at the elite level but my experience is that these guys do not hang about when they take a provisional. And referees will strongly encourage them to take provisionals.

 

[Jacko_G]

I think you've gone a bit too far with the "missing the point" phrase. Because I do not disagree with anything in your statement. I know it may he implemented as part of the rules. Doesn't mean I have to be a fan of it though.

Not being a fan of it now - OK

 

[Jacko_G]

I don't know how often you referee at the elite level but my experience is that these guys do not hang about when they take a provisional. And referees will strongly encourage them to take provisionals.

I watch plenty of golf, I caddy and you are talking nonsense if you think "elite" players do not hang about, especially at national level.

 

[YandaB]

As yet, CONGU has made no mention of it. Originally they said they were waiting to see how it panned out but if no one could use it I don't know how they would know. I reckon they were just waiting for WHS to make the decision for them. To the best of my knowledge it is acceptable everywhere else in the world if the committee want to use it.

Thanks rulefan. What about the future of CONGU, is that still going to exist?

 

[rulefan]

Thanks rulefan. What about the future of CONGU, is that still going to exist?

I have neither seen nor heard anything to suggest otherwise.

 

[Tab373]

really dont know how it will all work out. byt confused so if im currenty off 8 and my last 10 rounds have been around plus 10 to 12 over par. when the new system comes in will i stay at 8 or automatically got to say 11

 

[rulefan]

really dont know how it will all work out. byt confused so if im currenty off 8 and my last 10 rounds have been around plus 10 to 12 over par. when the new system comes in will i stay at 8 or automatically got to say 11

It will depend on the best 8 of your last 20 rounds and the SSS (not par) of the tees you played