Will Scorecards For Comps Soon Be Redundant?

[Lord Tyrion]

You still need to check the cards - why do you believe that because they are put into a computer they no longer need checking ?

Even if it’s electronic you still need to check the card and I’ll tell you now I see more errors putting the scores onto the computer than I do on a scorecard.

And psi were brought in to help with Handicap calculations and the results to be sent to CDH quicker and to print off results quickly - cards still need checking regardless of what format is used

What is it that is being checked? The system will add up the shots, award points, take into account handicap etc.

If checking of some sort is required it can be done via computer, either at home or at the club. All clearly visible as there is no handwriting to work out, smudges etc. It is easier.

 

[The Fader]

During the height of the space race in the 1960s, legend has it, NASA scientists realized that pens could not function in space. They needed to figure out another way for the astronauts to write things down. So they spent years and millions of taxpayer dollars to develop a pen that could put ink to paper without gravity. But their crafty Soviet counterparts, so the story goes, simply handed their cosmonauts pencils.

I believe this may well be an urban myth - but you get my point!!

 

[Slab]

Why couldn’t this device be, handheld, pocket sized, weather proof, battery powered. Loaded with Rules app, local rules, ball search timer, halfway house snack pre-order software, GPS pace of play warnings, multiplayer scorecard (with safeguards over inputting), player handicap stroke information, hole distance GPS, leader boards, matchplay scoring. Able to be remotely locked if not returned on day of use, contact alerts with clubhouse for medical emergencies, anti-glare touchscreen, able to download 40,000 courses and a dozen other things

People are talking like this is alien technology that’ll cost thousands and players will need to speak Klingon to decipher how to use it. Absolutely every bit of tech already exists including the device and almost all is currently being used by golfers in one form or another all over the world… today
Some of the cost will even be recouped through advertising/sponsorship as it is with scorecards today

It’ll happen on a grand scale as soon as the cost is even close to comparable for printing scorecards/pencils. Its inevitable, and the real question is at that time, why would some members force their clubs to continue with the additional cost of printing scorecards etc when cheaper options are available!

 

[Imurg]

If it becomes cheaper to buy and maintain devices like these than print scorecards then that shows a real benefit.
Job done.
Then it's just a matter of overcoming decades of ingrained processes.
But how long will that take?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If it becomes cheaper to buy and maintain devices like these than print scorecards then that shows a real benefit.
Job done.
Then it's just a matter of overcoming decades of ingrained processes.
But how long will that take?

On the basis of recent dress code threads..............

 

[Orikoru]

During the height of the space race in the 1960s, legend has it, NASA scientists realized that pens could not function in space. They needed to figure out another way for the astronauts to write things down. So they spent years and millions of taxpayer dollars to develop a pen that could put ink to paper without gravity. But their crafty Soviet counterparts, so the story goes, simply handed their cosmonauts pencils.

I believe this may well be an urban myth - but you get my point!!

Yeah it's not true. Pencils were deemed no good because the led could break off, float around in zero gravity and go in someone's eye.

 

[Slab]

Yeah it's not true. Pencils were deemed no good because the led could break off, float around in zero gravity and go in someone's eye.

Same reason you'll never see an astronaut in zero gravity run with scissors

 

[Ross61]

Yeah it's not true. Pencils were deemed no good because the led could break off, float around in zero gravity and go in someone's eye.

Not just that but a graphite pencil conducts electricity and floating bits could get into the equipment

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Did they crayons instead then? Did anyone crack the pen in space conundrum?

 

[GB72]

I see this as a great idea going forward. Use the kindle technology for the screen. Cheap to produce, can be seen even in bright sunlight, easily adjustable font sizes etc, seems perfect. Type in the score as you go, tap the device on a terminal in the clubhouse to upload the data, seems a no brainer. No queues at the computer whilst people try to read someone elses handwriting, no ruined cards in bad weather, better for the environment and must be cheaper in the long run rather than producing thousands of score cards. If you could get the price of such a device in under £50 (which I cannot see as much of an issue due to only needing fairly basic tech), I cannot see too many people objecting to buying one.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

View attachment 27932

Why couldn’t this device be, handheld, pocket sized, weather proof, battery powered. Loaded with Rules app, local rules, ball search timer, halfway house snack pre-order software, GPS pace of play warnings, multiplayer scorecard (with safeguards over inputting), player handicap stroke information, hole distance GPS, leader boards, matchplay scoring. Able to be remotely locked if not returned on day of use, contact alerts with clubhouse for medical emergencies, anti-glare touchscreen, able to download 40,000 courses and a dozen other things

People are talking like this is alien technology that’ll cost thousands and players will need to speak Klingon to decipher how to use it. Absolutely every bit of tech already exists including the device and almost all is currently being used by golfers in one form or another all over the world… today
Some of the cost will even be recouped through advertising/sponsorship as it is with scorecards today

It’ll happen on a grand scale as soon as the cost is even close to comparable for printing scorecards/pencils. Its inevitable, and the real question is at that time, why would some members force their clubs to continue with the additional cost of printing scorecards etc when cheaper options are available!

Do you think GPS devices are getting cheaper or more expensive?

8 years ago a basic one was around £150 - equivalent is now around £250

That device you suggest is lovely , right now they cost around £1k to put into buggies , a smaller one is around £500 - so every member will need one - who pays for it ? Even if it’s just 200 numbers that’s nearly £10k for something which changes what exactly ? Replaced a bit of paper and pencil which prob cost around 10pence

For the same price as one of those devices you have a years worth of scorecards.

All the technology does exist and right now golfers can chose if they want to use it because it’s not cheap

One of the biggest hurdles in golf is cost - one of the biggest things the clubs have to juggle is cost so what does adding these devices do for the sport beyond bringing up the cost ?
Decades away from making a electronic device cheaper than a paper scorecard and pencil.

And then the expectation that every single golfer is “tech savvy” - just go to a golf club during a Comp and see how many struggle with just taping numbers on a big PSI and see how many give up - average around 20 per Comp - and people think it will be easier for them to use an even smaller screen ?!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I see this as a great idea going forward. Use the kindle technology for the screen. Cheap to produce, can be seen even in bright sunlight, easily adjustable font sizes etc, seems perfect. Type in the score as you go, tap the device on a terminal in the clubhouse to upload the data, seems a no brainer. No queues at the computer whilst people try to read someone elses handwriting, no ruined cards in bad weather, better for the environment and must be cheaper in the long run rather than producing thousands of score cards. If you could get the price of such a device in under £50 (which I cannot see as much of an issue due to only needing fairly basic tech), I cannot see too many people objecting to buying one.

When a piece of tech is a 'must have' - or even perceived to be so - then the cost of the tech due to it's complexity will be the bottom line cost but retailers will then try and get as much as they can from selling to their captive market.

And why would I not object to having to pay £50 for something that I simply don't need.

 

[Foxholer]

I am the comp sec at our club and after each comp I count the returned cards see if they are signed etc etc.

I think that this could be done electronically, with electronic signatures, saving the need for players to input their score on the main terminal and comp secs the time in counting cards and time in finding out who hasn't returned a card.

Would this method be allowed under the current CONGU rules, and if so has any clubs used this method or thinking about it?

Surely a simpler method would be to modify current PSI system (and associated rules) to replace the 'dependence' on the returned card - which would still be useful for all (but scores, handicap and signature) current functions. There are multiple ways in which the 'signature' requirement could be handled. Card could, as now, still be the ultimate reference for sig etc. and a simple 'who hasn't returned a score' process could identify PSI slackers.

I don't see any great need for 'online' scoring facilities - though it has been available (e.g. thru VPar) for a number of years. I've used it in ProAm comps several times.

Having been a Comp Sec in the past, I can appreciate the amount of work regd to handle slackers, but that's just 'part of the job' and can be handled with sanctions if deemed necessary. Whichever method of obtaining scores/collating results is installed, there'll be some who cause issues that will cost administrators time!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well so far no one has produced a valid reason for why it can't or shouldn't be done.
I run my life via the internet, almost totally paperless, banking, shopping, insurance, doctors, pay slips etc...

But some how we can't add up 18 numbers for a bunch of golfers 🤣🤣🤣

And no one has come up with exactly how it changes your golf for the better that makes it worthwhile doing.

Why is it better than paper and pencil

 

[Doh]

Pretty much everyone nowadays has a smart phone, not entirely sure what could go wrong that you refer to.

Yes you are quite right about that.

 

[GB72]

When a piece of tech is a 'must have' - or even perceived to be so - then the cost of the tech due to it's complexity will be the bottom line cost but retailers will then try and get as much as they can from selling to their captive market.

And why would I not object to having to pay £50 for something that I simply don't need.

If it becomes the norm then it is just the same as any other piece of equipment that you will need to play golf. At the moment you do not need it but going forward you may well do.

And no one has come up with exactly how it changes your golf for the better that makes it worthwhile doing.

Why is it better than paper and pencil

Because producing scorecards is a cost every year, because making amendments to paper scorecards is a further expense that then potentially requires the destruction of existing supplies that are out of date, because it may be better for the environment, because paper scorecards are inherently impractical in a number of weather conditions, because uploading scores using an NFC link is far quicker than typing in by hand, because the device could record far more data than just scores if needed, including pace of play etc. Can think of a number of reasons why it would be better.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If it becomes the norm then it is just the same as any other piece of equipment that you will need to play golf. At the moment you do not need it but going forward you may well do.

Because producing scorecards is a cost every year, because making amendments to paper scorecards is a further expense that then potentially requires the destruction of existing supplies that are out of date, because it may be better for the environment, because paper scorecards are inherently impractical in a number of weather conditions, because uploading scores using an NFC link is far quicker than typing in by hand, because the device could record far more data than just scores if needed, including pace of play etc. Can think of a number of reasons why it would be better.

If you bring cost into it there is only one winner - the paper scorecard , far far cheaper to produce a score card than it is an electronic device that will do the same job - it costs us about £1k for a couple years worth of score cards.

Better for the environment? What does it take to produce all these electronic devices - are they all totally clean

Weather - electronics and water , Cold , heat , frost all have their issues

And far quicker to type than write a number ? Really ?

What happens when you drop it on a hard service perhaps - how easily are electronic devices damaged


Basically some people love technology and want it everywhere in their life - they aren’t the majority

 

[Orikoru]

I see this as a great idea going forward. Use the kindle technology for the screen. Cheap to produce, can be seen even in bright sunlight, easily adjustable font sizes etc, seems perfect. Type in the score as you go, tap the device on a terminal in the clubhouse to upload the data, seems a no brainer. No queues at the computer whilst people try to read someone elses handwriting, no ruined cards in bad weather, better for the environment and must be cheaper in the long run rather than producing thousands of score cards. If you could get the price of such a device in under £50 (which I cannot see as much of an issue due to only needing fairly basic tech), I cannot see too many people objecting to buying one.

I wouldn't have thought you make the golfers buy the devices. The cost of them would surely be taken on by the club, and they keep the devices locked up somewhere between rounds.

 

[Foxholer]

If it becomes the norm then it is just the same as any other piece of equipment that you will need to play golf. At the moment you do not need it but going forward you may well do....

Still an unnecessary/avoidable cost! At least compared to a pencil and (club provided) scorecard.

....

Because producing scorecards is a cost every year, because making amendments to paper scorecards is a further expense that then potentially requires the destruction of existing supplies that are out of date, because it may be better for the environment, because paper scorecards are inherently impractical in a number of weather conditions, because uploading scores using an NFC link is far quicker than typing in by hand, because the device could record far more data than just scores if needed, including pace of play etc. Can think of a number of reasons why it would be better.

This is not going to eliminate the (pretty trivial) cost of producing scorecards!

I learnt early on in my almost 40 years as an IT professional that there's a significant difference between what is possible, what is desirable and what is practical/sensible!

Btw. I know a couple of clubs thet 'made a profit' from the advertising on scorecards!

 

[GB72]

If you bring cost into it there is only one winner - the paper scorecard , far far cheaper to produce a score card than it is an electronic device that will do the same job - it costs us about £1k for a couple years worth of score cards.

Better for the environment? What does it take to produce all these electronic devices - are they all totally clean

Weather - electronics and water , Cold , heat , frost all have their issues

And far quicker to type than write a number ? Really ?

What happens when you drop it on a hard service perhaps - how easily are electronic devices damaged


Basically some people love technology and want it everywhere in their life - they aren’t the majority

True, the environmental impact would need to be assessed but on a national of global scale the reduction in use of disposable assets could be a benefit.

With regards weather, electronics that hold up to the elements are pretty much common now, not hard to waterproof a chip or whole device.

With regards speed, I was looking more at downloading via a tap with an NFC enabled device after a round rather than typing scores into a computer.

Damage is not an issue, easy to have a device than can take a drop.

As for cost, it would take an annual cost away from the club and pass a small, one off cost on to each member. Many clubs would be thankful to remove an annual cost from the budget.

Many people see the benefit of technology over using outdated methods such as paper and pencil.