DQ for not returning card.

[Lord Tyrion]

I can understand why people might be nervous of using them.
But for those of us who would use them they should be available
That would have avoided this .

Ours have been in use throughout. Wipes and hand sanitiser next to them, jobs a good un. By keeping them off it creates a mythical danger about them that isn't really there, making people unnecessarily nervous now.

 

[SammmeBee]

Our club rules for weekend comps is that cards must be in the office by 10 am Monday morning.

There would be no access to PSI screens after 9 pm here and in our optional medals there is no final time for entry.

Obviously in keeping with WHS……

 

[rulefan]

Our club rules for weekend comps is that cards must be in the office by 10 am Monday morning.

There would be no access to PSI screens after 9 pm here and in our optional medals there is no final time for entry.

So no PCCs then

 

[jim8flog]

Obviously in keeping with WHS……

So no PCCs then

Our office staff do not work most weekends, there might be some there for the morning only. Cards from Friday, Saturday and Sunday comps are processed Monday mornings although the vast majority of cards would have been entered been an app or PSI screen.

The Proshop closes at 7 pm so that is one PSI screen closed off and the bar and changing rooms are closed by 9pm so that is the other one closed off and the 9pm close is a summer time closing hour. As I understand it it hardly worth it even keeping it open that late due to staff cost verses profit from sales. Although we are a members club we run on a commercial basis

One of the troubles is that those responsible for setting the rules is failing to understand what actually happens at golf clubs. Long chat with our Area Authority rep Wednesday and he also said that in his opinion England Golf just have not appreciated just how much extra work has been heaped upon clubs by the WHS.

 

[SammmeBee]

Our office staff do not work most weekends, there might be some there for the morning only. Cards from Friday, Saturday and Sunday comps are processed Monday mornings although the vast majority of cards would have been entered been an app or PSI screen.

The Proshop closes at 7 pm so that is one PSI screen closed off and the bar and changing rooms are closed by 9pm so that is the other one closed off and the 9pm close is a summer time closing hour. As I understand it it hardly worth it even keeping it open that late due to staff cost verses profit from sales. Although we are a members club we run on a commercial basis

One of the troubles is that those responsible for setting the rules is failing to understand what actually happens at golf clubs. Long chat with our Area Authority rep Wednesday and he also said that in his opinion England Golf just have not appreciated just how much extra work has been heaped upon clubs by the WHS.

Does the commercial aspect of the club only work from Monday to Friday?

So if you play in a comp on a Friday then you could play off the wrong handicap until Monday?

 

[jim8flog]

Does the commercial aspect of the club only work from Monday to Friday?

So if you play in a comp on a Friday then you could play off the wrong handicap until Monday?

Your handicap is the one on the EG (or other area authority) portal on the day of play. If scores have not been uploaded to it then it is not a wrong handicap.


If the score has been uploaded by the ISV, or a player has used the EG app then a players H.I. will alter it does not need the competition to be closed for this to be done.

The office staff who do work on a Saturday Morning do not normally process competition cards (unless it is the manager who will do it if he has no other pressing matters to deal with).

The pro shop is open weekends but they do not deal with competition cards.

 

[rulefan]

It is only the PCC which may be affected. Under CONGU, handicaps didn't change 'til the comp was closed and the CSS known.

 

[jim8flog]

It is only the PCC which may be affected. Under CONGU, handicaps didn't change 'til the comp was closed and the CSS known.

Not quite right ( I am sure you know this but others nay not have known).

Under the UHS if you shot a score better than your handicap and you were playing in another comp before the result of the first was known then you had to self adjust based upon the SSS.

 

[rulefan]

 

[wjemather]

Your handicap is the one on the EG (or other area authority) portal on the day of play. If scores have not been uploaded to it then it is not a wrong handicap.


If the score has been uploaded by the ISV, or a player has used the EG app then a players H.I. will alter it does not need the competition to be closed for this to be done.

The office staff who do work on a Saturday Morning do not normally process competition cards (unless it is the manager who will do it if he has no other pressing matters to deal with).

The pro shop is open weekends but they do not deal with competition cards.

Yes, the handicap index shown by WHS is always the correct one, but both player and handicap committee are responsible for ensuring scores are submitted and uploaded to WHS before midnight each day to ensure that everyone's HI is up to date. If this is not happening at your club, something is clearly going wrong and your handicap committee has the responsibility to get it sorted.

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, the handicap index shown by WHS is always the correct one, but both player and handicap committee are responsible for ensuring scores are submitted and uploaded to WHS before midnight each day to ensure that everyone's HI is up to date. If this is not happening at your club, something is clearly going wrong and your handicap committee has the responsibility to get it sorted.

The trouble sometimes with people who set the rules is that they do not bother to check what happens in reality.

Would you have volunteers at your club willing to hang around to gone 9pm just to put a players card in to the system or would your club be willing to pay staff to do the same.

 

[wjemather]

The trouble sometimes with people who set the rules is that they do not bother to check what happens in reality.

Would you have volunteers at your club willing to hang around to gone 9pm just to put a players card in to the system or would your club be willing to pay staff to do the same.

This is absolutely not necessary. Committees simply need put processes in place to ensure score entry is facilitated and players are aware of, and meet, their responsibilities. It really doesn't take much.

 

[jim8flog]

This is absolutely not necessary. Committees simply need put processes in place to ensure score entry is facilitated and players are aware of, and meet, their responsibilities. It really doesn't take much.

So taking in to account the OP what does your club do about players finishing after 9pm with everything locked up and apps not working?

 

[Colin L]

This is absolutely not necessary. Committees simply need put processes in place to ensure score entry is facilitated and players are aware of, and meet, their responsibilities. It really doesn't take much.

This is absolutely not necessary. Committees simply need put processes in place to ensure score entry is facilitated and players are aware of, and meet, their responsibilities. It really doesn't take much.

That strikes me as a remarkably unaware statement.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I wasn’t going to post this as it was sorted ok but!
Last Saturday I played in the comp teeing off at 4.28 pm .
We finished at 8.05pm
Put my stuff away and went for a drink in the clubhouse.
Left there at 8.40 pm and got home about 9pm .
At 9.15 I was not able to upload my score and photo to IG.
Thought I will give it a minute there might be a problem.
At 9.36pm I got an email saying comp finalised and I was DQ for non return of card.
I don’t have the internet on my phone so do it on my iPad when I get home.
Called the comp sec and he put my score into the comp no prob but had a little go at me for being late.
So under 5 hrs after I hit my tee shot off the first tee is deemed late
This is the only method of putting card in there’s no box.

The main reason I posted is my mate works on a Saturday and the last tee time is 4.28pm so I am in the same situation tomorrow.
Is he right to do this ?
I think if your going to have tees this late ,time is needed to upload cards.
He subsequently told me he started finalising the comp at 8.30 pm.!
That’s a bit early imo.

Life must be tough when all you have to do is put one scorecard in on time.
Meanwhile you're happy for a volunteer to sit around twiddling his thumbs while you faff about on a Saturday night (not that it's any more respectful any other time).

He is absolutely correct. You are absolutely not.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

This is absolutely not necessary. Committees simply need put processes in place to ensure score entry is facilitated and players are aware of, and meet, their responsibilities. It really doesn't take much.

The OP has been told, personally, that closure of comp is initiated at 8.30, he's in a huff about that, because he wants to go for a pint, drive home, put his slippers on, light the fire, and then he might get round to finishing his round of golf

 

[wjemather]

That strikes me as a remarkably unaware statement.

No, just speaking from experience. Frankly, it's staggering how many clubs do not have an adequate handicap committee in place and/or haven't made any changes to their procedures to meet the requirements of WHS. Don't get me wrong, the authorities have an awful lot to answer for (systems that were/are not ready for action, hopelessly inadequate communication and support, overly-complicated/detailed educational materials, etc.) but they cannot be blamed for everything.

So taking in to account the OP what does your club do about players finishing after 9pm with everything locked up and apps not working?

Such things are accounted for in our M&H handbook (which was rewritten with WHS in mind), clauses of which are included in our newsletters to provide continuing education/reminders to our members; scorecards are to be emailed in for processing by a member of the committee (usually me). We had an area-wide power cut a few weeks ago, with half the field unable to use the PSI (almost no-one uses the app), and we have regular internet outages which knock-out the PSI; so far the process has worked well.

The committee always has disciplinary measures at their disposal to deal with players who persistently do not follow the procedures - they need to use them.

 

[jim8flog]

Such things are accounted for in our M&H handbook (which was rewritten with WHS in mind), clauses of which are included in our newsletters to provide continuing education/reminders to our members; scorecards are to be emailed in for processing by a member of the committee (usually me). We had an area-wide power cut a few weeks ago, with half the field unable to use the PSI (almost no-one uses the app), and we have a regular internet outages which knock-out the PSI; so far the process has worked well.

The committee always has disciplinary measures at their disposal to deal with players who persistently do not follow the procedures - they need to use them.

So if the player emails you card at 11.59pm how are you going to get that card on to the portal by 12.00am? What do you do about players that do not have computers (about 5% of our membership we reckon)?

At our club there would be no one in the office to read the emails anyway until Monday morning for Friday, Saturday or Sunday comps (the point I originally made).

I am reminded of a question posed at the WHS workshop

" What happens when the computer systems such as the PSI stop working". It was met by quite a few blank stares and a few mutterings to the effect that computers do not go wrong with no solid reply.

We often 'lose' our PSI screens and at weekends they cannot be set up again until Monday morning as the "reset switch" is in the office and those people with admin privileges to reset at the PSI would not be working.

 

[wjemather]

So if the player emails you card at 11.59pm how are you going to get that card on to the portal by 12.00am? What do you do about players that do not have computers (about 5% of our membership we reckon)?

At our club there would be no one in the office to read the emails anyway until Monday morning for Friday, Saturday or Sunday comps (the point I originally made).

I am reminded of a question posed at the WHS workshop

" What happens when the computer systems such as the PSI stop working". It was met by quite a few blank stares and a few mutterings to the effect that computers do not go wrong with no solid reply.

We often 'lose' our PSI screens and at weekends they cannot be set up again until Monday morning as the "reset switch" is in the office and those people with admin privileges to reset at the PSI would not be working.

We have a cut-off of 10:30pm in summer, which is more than reasonable. Scores sent in later may still get entered on the day, but the player would get a reminder and be subject to disciplinary measures if they repeatedly missed the cut-off time.

Members have to follow the procedures as agreed in the handbook and any terms of competition; if they don't they will be reminded and may be subject to further action (e.g. suspension from competitions, WHS provided sanctions, etc.).

Do the office staff make up your committee, or have the committee delegated their responsibilities to them? Both setups are not uncommon with members clubs locally, and I'm aware of all of them having regular problems because of it. Not having anyone available to reset systems at weekends (when M&H are usually busiest) just makes things worse.

 

[bobmac]

Finish your round, sign your card and pop it in the box on the way to the bar.
Who can't do that?
Why does that need fixing?
Thank goodness it's only a game