Doubles card question

[doublebogey7]

I don’t believe there is anything in the Rules of Handicap that stops both players putting out in a 4BBB strokeplay competition. Yes, it’s not good for the pace of play, but if both players are playing really well ( scoring over 42 pts etc)and they both submit all scores, the software ( certainly ClubV1) will pass through both scores to the EG Database and both players will have scores added to their records.

Yes the software allows it as it doesnt know you've also played in a 4 Ball comp. That does not though mean you would be complying with the rules of handicapping. This states that GP scores are only acceptable if you are complying with the rules for single strokeplay. Which you haven’t done if playing in a 4 Ball competition.
Plus if you have scored more than 42 pts as a pair that will also be submitted to the EG database so this round would be counted twice in your top 8.

 

[NearHull]

Yes the software allows it as it doesnt know you've also played in a 4 Ball comp. That does not though mean you would be complying with the rules of handicapping. This states that GP scores are only acceptable if you are complying with the rules for single strokeplay. Which you haven’t done if playing in a 4 Ball competition.

The software does know that you are playing a 4BBB Comp. I’ve set up a dummy 4 BBB Strokeplay competition in ClubV1 and entered two pairs , who all played really well. All players scored more than 9 times and each pair bettered 42pts. All recorded scores were transferred into EG database and each of the 4 players had scores entered into their handicaps. Obviously, after the dummy run I erased all records of that dummy comp.

I have also directly entered a pairs’ 4BBB comp result into EG, the option to add 18 scores for each player is available.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

…and I believe that your score for a hole for which your score is not the best of your fourball pair - in OPs case that was 6 holes - is based upon your playing partners scores for the hole. I’m thinking that any card you submit that shows your own score for the 6 holes will be rejected for reasons others have given.

 

[D-S]

…and I believe that your score for a hole for which your score is not the best of your fourball pair - in OPs case that was 6 holes - is based upon your playing partners scores for the hole. I’m thinking that any card you submit that shows your own score for the 6 holes will be rejected for reasons others have given.

The main/key reason being that it was not achieved in an Individual Singles Format.

 

[doublebogey7]

The software does know that you are playing a 4BBB Comp. I’ve set up a dummy 4 BBB Strokeplay competition in ClubV1 and entered two pairs , who all played really well. All players scored more than 9 times and each pair bettered 42pts. All recorded scores were transferred into EG database and each of the 4 players had scores entered into their handicaps. Obviously, after the dummy run I erased all records of that dummy comp.

I have also directly entered a pairs’ 4BBB comp result into EG, the option to add 18 scores for each player is available.

Apologies I misread your original post. However if all players score on all 18 holes only those scores contributing to the team score will be recorded on EG the lower stableford being rejected when passed to EG by the ISV. The player will then be awarded points against a set formulae for the holes not contributing, to give them a full 18 hole score.

 

[NearHull]

Apologies I misread your original post. However if all players score on all 18 holes only those scores contributing to the team score will be recorded on EG the lower stableford being rejected when passed to EG by the ISV. The player will then be awarded points against a set formulae for the holes not contributing, to give them a full 18 hole score.

I don’t believe that’s correct. From what I have observed, EG takes both scores and doesn’t reject a ‘shared’ score.

ETA, I shouldn’t really be posting as I’m also trying to watch the match and not concentrating on my reply,

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I don’t believe that’s correct. From what I have observed, EG takes both scores and doesn’t reject a ‘shared’ score.

The EG app doesn’t know what you are playing when you enter it. It’s why some people have entered scores on there where playing in team events like 4bbb or a waltz etc

It’s down to the integrity of the players to not enter singles scores when playing in team competitions

It’s one of the issues of the EG app and not having links to ISV’s

 

[hovis]

…and I believe that your score for a hole for which your score is not the best of your fourball pair - in OPs case that was 6 holes - is based upon your playing partners scores for the hole. I’m thinking that any card you submit that shows your own score for the 6 holes will be rejected for reasons others have given.

That a crazy system. On this system I will have a score of 5 under (gross). I actually shot 4 over gross. That'll be one hell of a cut

 

[doublebogey7]

I don’t believe that’s correct. From what I have observed, EG takes both scores and doesn’t reject a ‘shared’ score.

ETA, I shouldn’t really be posting as I’m also trying to watch the match and not concentrating on my reply,

I haven’t tested it myself but that is not how it is meant to be working.

 

[D-S]

I haven’t tested it myself but that is not how it is meant to be working.

There is no way EG/Dotgolf can distinguish between 2 equal Stableford scores - they have no idea which one went in first. Therefore they accept them both.
Committees are encouraged to discourage this practice, but how you do this in Opens with visitors, heaven only knows.
The only practical way of doing it would be to have special scorecards that accept only one score per hole or PSIs that do the same. But if you have a 2s comp when both have paid in you need to see both scores.
Another occasion when the concept is good until it collides with reality.

 

[woofers]

That a crazy system. On this system I will have a score of 5 under (gross). I actually shot 4 over gross. That'll be one hell of a cut

Based on your partners score, not their actual score as explained below:

 

[wjemather]

The EG app doesn’t know what you are playing when you enter it. It’s why some people have entered scores on there where playing in team events like 4bbb or a waltz etc

It’s down to the integrity of the players to not enter singles scores when playing in team competitions

More a lack of knowledge than integrity.
Anyway, handicap committees should be deleting such scores and educating the players concerned.

 

[wjemather]

If it’s not an official comp and a “swindle” etc or social comp etc then it’s no different to what we see where people put their social scores in as general play cards

The difference is the rules that are being played - individual strokeplay or four-ball.

If it’s a club competition then no you can’t put a singles card in

But an “away doubles” comp - there was nothing stopping you from entering a general play card

There is no distinction between the two. Individual GP scores from four-ball rounds are not acceptable for handicapping.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The difference is the rules that are being played - individual strokeplay or four-ball.


There is no distinction between the two. Individual GP scores from four-ball rounds are not acceptable for handicapping.

People all over the country play during the weekends in swindles, roll ups a combination of a singles stableford with a side bet of 4bbb match-play , team scores and many put in GP scores during those rounds

So which rules are in play - the singles or the 4bbb ones

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That a crazy system. On this system I will have a score of 5 under (gross). I actually shot 4 over gross. That'll be one hell of a cut

As explained, and why I said it was ‘based’ upon your partners score on each hole…not that you took his actual score.

 

[doublebogey7]

There is no way EG/Dotgolf can distinguish between 2 equal Stableford scores - they have no idea which one went in first. Therefore they accept them both.
Committees are encouraged to discourage this practice, but how you do this in Opens with visitors, heaven only knows.
The only practical way of doing it would be to have special scorecards that accept only one score per hole or PSIs that do the same. But if you have a 2s comp when both have paid in you need to see both scores.
Another occasion when the concept is good until it collides with reality.

Yes I know that, I was commenting on NearHulls assertion that players could put all 18 hole scores in a 4 Ball and all those hole scores would count towards there score recorded in EG.

 

[wjemather]

People all over the country play during the weekends in swindles, roll ups a combination of a singles stableford with a side bet of 4bbb match-play , team scores and many put in GP scores during those rounds

So which rules are in play - the singles or the 4bbb ones

Playing individual strokeplay for handicapping and having side bets using those scores is perfectly acceptable.

Rounds that are not played by the rules of individual strokeplay are not acceptable for handicapping, with the sole exception of 4BBB competition scores (which are covered differently).

 

[NearHull]

Yes I know that, I was commenting on NearHulls assertion that players could put all 18 hole scores in a 4 Ball and all those hole scores would count towards there score recorded in EG.

You may be referring to the ability of a player to input into the EG App. I have admin rights in the EG Database. My comments specifically mentioned the EG Database, where a Competition/Handicap Committee member can directly enter all 18 Stableford pts for a 4BBB and allocate every score to each player. Each player would then have a score recorded in their personal record.
Equally, in 4BBB Strokeplay, ClubV1 will transfer each players 18 hole scores into EG Database. If both players score the same points, then each player will be credited with those points ( 42pts, >9 hole etc etc).

 

[doublebogey7]

You may be referring to the ability of a player to input into the EG App. I have admin rights in the EG Database. My comments specifically mentioned the EG Database, where a Competition/Handicap Committee member can directly enter all 18 Stableford pts for a 4BBB and allocate every score to each player. Each player would then have a score recorded in their personal record.
Equally, in 4BBB Strokeplay, ClubV1 will transfer each players 18 hole scores into EG Database. If both players score the same points, then each player will be credited with those points ( 42pts, >9 hole etc etc).

Not sure you said EG only credited all scores where both players had scored the same, very unlikely for all 18 holes I would have thought.

In terms of entering all scores directly into EG, why would you even test something that would mean you would be breaking rules entrusted to you by your club and EG.

 

[NearHull]

Not sure you said EG only credited all scores where both players had scored the same, very unlikely for all 18 holes I would have thought.

In terms of entering all scores directly into EG, why would you even test something that would mean you would be breaking rules entrusted to you by your club and EG.

I don’t know of any rules in my Club that prohibits the recording of both scores in a 4BBB - and I chair the Competition and Handicaps Committee which has the responsibility of writing and governing the Terms of Competitions and the Local Rules. I would be interested if you can provide the Rule issued by EG to prohibit the recording of both scores. I am aware of guidance within our Pace of Play Advice that may be interpreted as against the pace of play.

Why did I test? A couple of reasons. The first was that I was intrigued to know what would happen if both players recorded more than 9 holes. The second was because a few weeks ago member played in a 4BBB competition with a partner whose handicap gave him a shot on our 8th - a par 3. He told me after the game that his partner ‘did him out of a 2 prize’ because his partner parred the hole for 3pts but he decided to have a putt at his birdie and holed it. He believed that he couldn’t claim his prize as he couldn’t enter a two on his card as his partner holed out first. I asked him to show me the rule that covered that condition. He wasn’t able to do so.

I agree with you that the chances of both players scoring the same points over 18 holes is slim, but over 9, 10, 11 holes. Quite possible, particularly for low handicap players gross parring 9, 10, 11 holes and more.