Will Scorecards For Comps Soon Be Redundant?

[SatchFan]

There's no way my phone could cope. See picture.



I make calls and I even had a text once. All for less than £10 a year. If someone wants me to record a score electronically then I'd happily use a supplied handheld gadget but I'm certainly not going to fork out for a new phone to complete the task.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A good robust, easy to use app would have fewer problems than people losing their card during the round, or forgetting it all together or making such a mess of filling it in that a secretary could barely decipher the scores anyway, without seeing them on the terminal.

And there in lies a problem - a robust easy to use app. I tried Vpar and was very disappointed with ease of use etc. I have never seen anyone lose a card in a competition. I have had trolley batteries die (even though it indicated it was fully charged). At the moment we have to enter scores on PSI after the round. It gives a player a chance to check and query any differences before entering and accepting a score and submitting the signed card. What if a score is entered wrongly on an app. Will it feed directly into the system and can't be changed. How do scores get edited and then approved as correct.

 

[Slab]

And there was this time my pencil broke.....

And remember that time it rained and the card got soggy (it was a while ago but still it could happen again)

 

[Imurg]

What if you are filling out your paper scorecard and a bolt of lightning strikes it and sets it on fire?

You would then have no way of recording and returning a score!

Dr...you're probably dead so you don't care

 

[Slab]

And there in lies a problem - a robust easy to use app. I tried Vpar and was very disappointed with ease of use etc. I have never seen anyone lose a card in a competition. I have had trolley batteries die (even though it indicated it was fully charged)

Have you ever seen anyone with a soggy scorecard making it illegible?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Have you ever seen anyone with a soggy scorecard making it illegible?

Of course but surely it's not different to people getting a phone out in the rain. Many will be reluctant to do so

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I strongly object to being referred to as an old coffin dodger.

I don't object at all. The longer I can keep dodging, the better.

I must say I can't see the R&A readily embracing giving up the card and pencil to smartphones
Does the R&A still require players to mark their cards in the case of pro golfers on the PGA and European tours. .?
If so, there is an area where they could modernise.
The scoreboard arrangements as seen on TV are on top of the scoring, aided and abetted by the guy walking with each group showing the score, to par, of each player in the group.
Everyone at the game played at that level knows exactly what the score is.
It would be positively unfair and ludicrous for a player to be "de Vicenzoed "
in this day and age.
And just because us amateurs rightly have to mark and submit our cards doesn't mean the elite pros have to do it

As a point of interest( if they still have to use pencil and card), do the pros do their cards , or do they rely on their caddies .?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

100% agree. Too many issues to really see this happening in the next decade and while it will happen in time I think there will always be card and pencil going hand and hand with electronic technology. People won't embrace change

Online booking systems were revolutionary once, now they are the norm. Downloading music was never going to catch on........Some people will fight against it for the sake of it, some will fight against it, use it then realise it is not so scary after all and actually makes life easier.

 

[Slab]

Of course but surely it's not different to people getting a phone out in the rain. Many will be reluctant to do so

Forget the phone for a moment, focusing on the device is preventing you seeing the bigger picture. Assume the club issued each group with a weatherproof hand held device as i described on previous page

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Doesn't have to be a phone. Clubs could supply handheld devices.

Many clubs are struggling financially and the priority would surely be on maintaining the course and spending cash on that machinery. This seems like a cost many would neither be able to afford of see as a high priority

 

[TheJezster]

The technology is definitely there, but will it happen anytime soon? Personally I doubt it.

My guess is they will monitor how the imputing of your own scores goes over the next few years first.

I quite like writing the scores on a card. Don't get me wrong, we've all got our phones on us, well most of us, and we use them during the rounds to check latest scores etc, especially in the footy season but I'm not sure I'd like to imput my scores online until after.

As a club we have decided not to utulise the leaderboard option on our system as our comps run across the weekend and it was felt that some people might not enter on a Sunday if they knew a good score was in on the Saturday.
But for big events, run over single days, this can be switched on.

 

[Slab]

Many clubs are struggling financially and the priority would surely be on maintaining the course and spending cash on that machinery. This seems like a cost many would neither be able to afford of see as a high priority

Ok now assume the cost of club issued hand held devices is cheaper than scorecard printing costs...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On a sunny day I struggle to see anything on my phone screen. Chubby fingers doesn’t help either.
I take my phone with me to golf and have it in my bag, but there is the odd occasion I’ve forgotten it.
You may say there are ways around this, but I always get given a card, I can always see what I’m writing and even If my pencil breaks I can borrow one. so what is the point of creating possible problems when there is not one to solve.

This^^^ I recently had a go at using my iPhone as a 3minute counter. I gave up immediately as I couldn't see the screen due to glare - that and I struggle in any case as I wear distance vision contact lenses and trying to read something on a phone screen outside is pretty much impossible.

The suggestion is a solution looking for a problem; and it is a solution that will, in any case, give rise to types of score recording problems that cannot rise with a card and a pencil - there is nothing simpler - no need to complicate things.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So some won’t wear a watch on the course as that’s “their time” and don’t want to worry about what time it is, how long they’ve searched for etc, but now want people to take their phone onto the course to score?
To my mind, this is an answer for something that isn’t a question or problem. Simples beats techno any day.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

On the course you record your score on an app.
Get in after the round - has your score automatically been entered? Who checks it?
If you've put a wrong score down you have the ability to amend your card before it's signed - if your score has already been uploaded can you still do this?

You check it against the scores marked by your PP, as you do now. You amend if necessary and then press submit. It is what happens when I enter my scores into the club computer, it asks me if I am sure I want to submit my card. Similar also to when you complete your card and put it in the box. Once in the box you can't pull it out again, it is the same as when you have submitted it.

 

[Slab]

This^^^ I recently had a go at using my iPhone as a 3minute counter. I gave up immediately as I couldn't see the screen due to glare - that and I struggle in any case as I wear distance vision contact lenses and trying to read something on a phone screen outside is pretty much impossible.

The suggestion is a solution looking for a problem; and it is a solution that will, in any case, give rise to types of score recording problems that cannot rise with a card and a pencil - there is nothing simpler - no need to complicate things.

You only need to mark one set of comp cards to see there is a problem (naturally the scale will vary)

 

[Imurg]

You check it against the scores marked by your PP, as you do now. You amend if necessary and then press submit. It is what happens when I enter my scores into the club computer, it asks me if I am sure I want to submit my card. Similar also to when you complete your card and put it in the box. Once in the box you can't pull it out again, it is the same as when you have submitted it.

Are they not checked again when the comp is being processed and closed?
If it's the same as now what are the benefits of doing it?
Any change is going to cause an expense somewhere.
That expense needs to show real benefits to the system otherwise it's change for the sake of change

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Are they not checked again when the comp is being processed and closed?
If it's the same as now what are the benefits of doing it?
Any change is going to cause an expense somewhere.
That expense needs to show real benefits to the system otherwise it's change for the sake of change

It saves time for the comp sec, no need to check cards, no need to spend time trying to decipher illegible writing. They just press a button.

Why did clubs bring in computers to enter scores at the end of rounds? Cards are used, why use computers? This is the same but a step further forward, eliminating the card aspect altogether.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm lost..? How do you get the scores into the computer at the moment if you have a power cut and the psi is down ?

You don’t - you get all the score cards together , work out who has won , and hey presto it’s done , HC calculations are then worked out manually - just how it was before. It’s what we had to do when our hard drive crashed with our CS data on it.

A paper and pencil works perfectly well

So what exactly does using a mobile as a scorecard give you that improves on the good old paper score card - what are the benefits that we just don’t get right now.

This is ridiculous.

The number of people who can afford to play golf at a members club and don't have a smartphone is probably tiny (a fraction of 1%) and reducing every year.
Even the coffin dodgers all have Samsungs or iphones. My mum actually has a better iphone than me, which I personally feel ashamed about when she asks me how to 'download music onto my phone' for her. And I then have to explain to her what streaming is.

And if they don't have one - sell or rent them a handheld device that has a single use for returning scores during competition.

All the old coffin dodgers manage to remember and charge their battery for their trolley.
Although most weeks I struggle to get round the course because a few dozen people's batteries have run out and the course is just strewn with discarded clubs and trolleys due to technology completely failing them.
Oh wait - I've actually NEVER seen a battery run out or a trolley break during the round because people do this thing called 'forward planning' where they charge their battery before they go and play golf.

A good robust, easy to use app would have fewer problems than people losing their card during the round, or forgetting it all together or making such a mess of filling it in that a secretary could barely decipher the scores anyway, without seeing them on the terminal.

Your tone is extremely disrespectful to a lot of forum members and indeed golfers who play the game , your estimates are also wildly inaccurate if you think it’s “tiny” that people don’t have smart phones. I know plenty that don’t have them , even people I work with don’t have them , they don’t see the need - they have a mobile that someone can call them on and send them a message , I know some that don’t even have a mobile.

How many people do you think actually “lose” their card ? In all my time of doing the comps the biggest issue people had was - using the PSI and inputting scores onto small screens , they found writing the score on a bit a paper a doddle - worked with little problems.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It saves time for the comp sec, no need to check cards, no need to spend time trying to decipher illegible writing. They just press a button.

Why did clubs bring in computers to enter scores at the end of rounds? Cards are used, why use computers? This is the same but a step further forward, eliminating the card aspect altogether.

You still need to check the cards - why do you believe that because they are put into a computer they no longer need checking ?

Even if it’s electronic you still need to check the card and I’ll tell you now I see more errors putting the scores onto the computer than I do on a scorecard.

And psi were brought in to help with Handicap calculations and the results to be sent to CDH quicker and to print off results quickly - cards still need checking regardless of what format is used