WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

wjemather

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On the flip side many clubs are now reporting incorrectly calculated handicaps, on further examination these are all down to the clubs displaying rounded CH on boards and players not realising/knowing that their PH is calculated from an unrounded one.
I can understand players getting it wrong while they get used to the change, but there is no excuse for clubs & committees - as a positive, such reports are highlighting to counties where help is needed in getting clubs up to speed.
 

D-S

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I can understand players getting it wrong while they get used to the change, but there is no excuse for clubs & committees - as a positive, such reports are highlighting to counties where help is needed in getting clubs up to speed.
True, but you would be surprised that it is the some of the more switched on clubs that get it wrong. I think it shows that attendance at seminars (both national and local) and pumping out information doesn’t always mean it goes in and is really understood.
At least these ‘switched on’ clubs are asking the questions and going back to members, I dread to think what confusion lies within the failing committees who don’t know the answers and don’t reach out for help.
 

wjemather

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True, but you would be surprised that it is the some of the more switched on clubs that get it wrong. I think it shows that attendance at seminars (both national and local) and pumping out information doesn’t always mean it goes in and is really understood.
At least these ‘switched on’ clubs are asking the questions and going back to members, I dread to think what confusion lies within the failing committees who don’t know the answers and don’t reach out for help.
Sorry, but this was a headline change that was exceedingly difficult to miss; it would be impossible for switched-on clubs to get it wrong.
 

D-S

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Sorry, but this was a headline change that was exceedingly difficult to miss; it would be impossible for switched-on clubs to get it wrong.
What they got wrong was putting up rounded CH boards and not explaining to members (or not getting it through) that they shouldn’t calculate PHs from them and when they were bombarded by questions/complaints not remembering the advice they received or the rationale or, in the moment, being able to do the maths to give the right answer or maybe not briefing all their committee members who were facing the members convinced that they were getting the wrong number of shots and that it was the computer’s or system’s fault.
 

wjemather

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What they got wrong was putting up rounded CH boards and not explaining to members (or not getting it through) that they shouldn’t calculate PHs from them and when they were bombarded by questions/complaints not remembering the advice they received or the rationale or, in the moment, being able to do the maths to give the right answer or maybe not briefing all their committee members who were facing the members convinced that they were getting the wrong number of shots and that it was the computer’s or system’s fault.
Sorry again, but this isn't a change that happened some time ago, that could be easily forgotten by now. They also don't need to "do the maths"; that's what they have <insert chosen ISV here> for; they simply need to know that PH is calculated by that software for them (as it has been since WHS came in).
 

D-S

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Sorry again, but this isn't a change that happened some time ago, that could be easily forgotten by now. They also don't need to "do the maths"; that's what they have <insert chosen ISV here> for; they simply need to know that PH is calculated by that software for them (as it has been since WHS came in).
They are responding to players who are asking why 95% of 15 is still 15 or 95% of 4 is 3 etc. etc. and just saying 'that is what the <insert chosen ISV here>' says is not answering the question or satisfying the aggrieved party - they are being faced with irate members who are insisting the the computer or <insert chosen ISV here> has got it wrong - When you are asked what are you going to do about it? on the 1st tee obviously even committed volunteers who have attended seminars e.g. at The Bristol didn't have the answers to hand - that is why I know about it.
 

wjemather

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They are responding to players who are asking why 95% of 15 is still 15 or 95% of 4 is 3 etc. etc. and just saying 'that is what the <insert chosen ISV here>' says is not answering the question or satisfying the aggrieved party - they are being faced with irate members who are insisting the the computer or <insert chosen ISV here> has got it wrong - When you are asked what are you going to do about it? on the 1st tee obviously even committed volunteers who have attended seminars e.g. at The Bristol didn't have the answers to hand - that is why I know about it.
The answer they give to player is that it isn't simply "95% of 15" or "95% of 4" (any more) because the software now calculates Playing Handicaps using unrounded values, so players can no longer easily do the calculation themselves from their Course Handicap, and they simply have to trust that the software is doing it correctly.

However, handicap committee members who weren't aware of the change (or had forgotten) wouldn't be able to give this answer.
 

wjemather

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There is patently a difference between the real world and what you think the real world is or should be.
I'm not the one claiming that people who don't know the basics of the changes (or have forgotten them after just 3 weeks) are "switched-on".
 

NearHull

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I believe the answer is to recommend to members to use ‘Machine Precision’ playing for all casual rounds and display information thats enables them to easily access their Machine Precision PH.
 

wjemather

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Does this comment support our approach or criticise it? I can’t read the implication in your words.
No issue with providing PH lookup tables for competitions that are being run through software, but advising use of "machine precision" in casual play adds unnecessary complexities and is contrary to union guidance.
 

NearHull

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No issue with providing PH lookup tables for competitions that are being run through software, but advising use of "machine precision" in casual play adds unnecessary complexities and is contrary to union guidance.
It’s not unnecessary complication, we provide very simple look up PH boards and it’s not against any Union guidance.
But it does stop any confusion/ argument on the tee about PH.

ETA.
G6.2a Playing Handicap Calculation
Whenever Playing Handicaps are calculated via machine (Computer, App, Spreadsheet etc) the
calculation must use the full calculated Course Handicap. The Playing Handicap will be
rounded at the end of the calculation (see examples in Appendix I of this document). Note
that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap
to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round).


‘Can’ is a choice.
 
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3offTheTee

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We have a Group of around 20 who have been playing for a Cup for over 20 years in memory of a member. No gimmees, no computer printed stickers for score cards. Individual Stableford. The organiser has already said 95% of CH.

Correct me if I am wrong but we should use 95% of Course Handicap as printed on "The Board", which is logical rather than using unrounded before calculated PH.

Many thanks
 

wjemather

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We have a Group of around 20 who have been playing for a Cup for over 20 years in memory of a member. No gimmees, no computer printed stickers for score cards. Individual Stableford. The organiser has already said 95% of CH.

Correct me if I am wrong but we should use 95% of Course Handicap as printed on "The Board", which is logical rather than using unrounded before calculated PH.

Many thanks
It's entirely up to the organiser but without software, anything other than just using course handicaps for a small group is creating unnecessary work for no benefit.
 

D-S

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On the flip side many clubs are now reporting incorrectly calculated handicaps, on further examination these are all down to the clubs displaying rounded CH on boards and players not realising/knowing that their PH is calculated from an unrounded one.
Interesting that this issue is now rearing its head on the England Golf Volunteer Hub on Facebook as well.
 

apj0524

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Yesterday my club held 36 hole multi Round comp all set up through IG. Scores from R1 entered and comp closed, scores from R2 entered and comp closed.

After trophy giving I packed up and forgot to close these combined comp, thought no real issue as the scores from both rounds are posted, but this morning only one score showing on the EG WHS Portal so closed mult round comp it this morning only to find that for 10 players 3 rounds are on the the EG WHS Portal (1 round duplicated), which I don't understand, but anyway sent a ticket to IG

More work to go through each score and delete which is ticking me off and will be the reason I will probably give up running comps at my club, the amount checking and work we are having do for comps and GP scores to cover up the inadequacies of the WHS system is out of proportion for a volunteer.

Anyone else seen the system duplicating rounds on the EG WHS Portal?
 
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