WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,399
Location
Bristol
Visit site
Hi. We did raise the prospect of an appeal but we're told to save our money because it would only change by a tiny amount at best

I was one if the spotters chatted to at the welsh youths open .... In other news it was a great 3 days of competition, but the kiddos all struggled with the course and the ones i spoke to all said it's harder than the cr would suggest.....


If any rater has any influence on wg then please mention it! Our responses have pretty much fallen on deaf ears
Unfortunately we are under EG jurisdiction so can’t help with any appeal - sorry. I learnt whilst doing a rating this week that there have been a few relatively subtle changes but these should not have a major impact on the final result. It will be interesting as we see the results coming in from the ratings that are being done now to see if there are significant changes.
The case of your case seems very odd, with an unbelievably low slope - nothing this low exists around here and to have such a CR change without a really, really significant length change beggars belief.
I’ll let you know on here if we get any major alterations to existing ratings.
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,825
Visit site
I spoke to our County rating manager and he confirmed procedures and some tables had changed but would have very little noticeable effect. The manual itself was thinner but that was because of the paper used.
 

LincolnShep

Head Pro
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
1,019
Visit site
Seems like a bit of both. Old 6160 and 72 seems high, New 6160 and 68.8 seems a a bit low - slope of 106 is really, really low - sort of the slope you get in a wide open field with few if any bunkers and really wide fairways.
My home course has a 106 rating too. It's fairly tight, with plenty of bunkers; but it is short, only 5300 yards off the whites.
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,825
Visit site
My home course has a 106 rating too. It's fairly tight, with plenty of bunkers; but it is short, only 5300 yards off the whites.
At that length, given that length is major factor in rating, the difference in difficulty for scratch and bogey players is likely to be minor.
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,825
Visit site
Exactly. Was just pointing out that 106 rating doesn't necessarily mean wide open field with no bunkers.
Indeed. It just means bunkers, penalty areas, long rough and jungle tree are situated such that they are no more or less likely to affect either player.
 

Tractor Wheal

New member
Joined
May 9, 2023
Messages
25
Visit site
Are you saying that intents generated by ClubV1 stopped being visible (and manageable) on the WHS Platform on April 1st?

I'm also curious to know how other ISVs (HandicapMaster, Golf Genius, etc.) function in this regard pre/post April 1st?
Can't see any Unsatisfied Intents now. Not just V1 & visitors, but members registering via MyEG now too.

Anyone else?

Hopefully just a blip but I guess we will only know when a General Play/Penalty Score comes through for Members, or we pick up Visitors from Score Listing.
 

IanMcC

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
942
Visit site
More dodgy dealings with Club Systems this morning. We are running our Club Champs this weekend. 18 holes Saturday and 18 holes Sunday. Yesterday I had a decent knock and went from 11.7 down to 11.3. The CV1 directory has me at 11.3, which tallies up with Wales Golf, but the comp has my Index at 11.1. 11.3 and 11.1 both give me the same PH, so that is no big deal, but I thought my Index should have remained unchanged for the second round of a 36 hole comp. 11.7 would get me another shot. Guess I'll just go out and hit balls!!!
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,825
Visit site
More dodgy dealings with Club Systems this morning. We are running our Club Champs this weekend. 18 holes Saturday and 18 holes Sunday. Yesterday I had a decent knock and went from 11.7 down to 11.3. The CV1 directory has me at 11.3, which tallies up with Wales Golf, but the comp has my Index at 11.1. 11.3 and 11.1 both give me the same PH, so that is no big deal, but I thought my Index should have remained unchanged for the second round of a 36 hole comp. 11.7 would get me another shot. Guess I'll just go out and hit balls!!!
Your Index and CH are round based so each round contributes to the calculation. Depending on the competition terms, the PH may stay the same or change. PH is only used to determine competition results.
 

Oldbutwise

New member
Joined
Nov 1, 2023
Messages
25
Visit site
Your Index and CH are round based so each round contributes to the calculation. Depending on the competition terms, the PH may stay the same or change. PH is only used to determine competition results.
You should speak to your competition or handicap secretary to clarify the rules of the competition. All 36 hole comps we run use the same index for both days but your club may differ.
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,825
Visit site
You should speak to your competition or handicap secretary to clarify the rules of the competition. All 36 hole comps we run use the same index for both days but your club may differ.
Surely if they are qualifiers an updated Index should be used?
I see that England Golf say:

In a competition, such as a 36-hole competition, played over the same or successive days it is recommended that the handicap index of a player applying at the beginning of a competition shall apply throughout the duration of the competition.
Where rounds extend over a period of time, it is recommended the current handicap shall apply.
 
Last edited:

IanMcC

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2019
Messages
942
Visit site
You should speak to your competition or handicap secretary to clarify the rules of the competition. All 36 hole comps we run use the same index for both days but your club may differ.
Using different HI on round 2 is not a configurable option on Club Systems. It should always default to using the same Index for both rounds.

It gets even odder. As I said, on the Sign In list my Index is quoted as 11.1, which is completely wrong. Yesterday I was 11.7 and today I am 11.3. However, the CH and PH have since changed on the Sign In list to the original, Day 1 figures. For me, this is 16/15. 11.1 or 11.3 would be 15/14. The result will be correct, of course, but many people have been confused today because almost everyone received the wrong allowances when they signed in. Our Director of Golf has raised a ticket with Club Systems.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,399
Location
Bristol
Visit site
I’m doing a couple of ratings in the next week or so and I’ll have a chat with the lead rater about this and will be interested to see whether the numbers on the courses we’re rating come out much different to before.
The more I think about this case, the more I believe some fundamental error has been made - if I were the club I’d be appealing it asap as it will make a nonsense of everyone’s handicaps.
Had a chat with our lead rater and so far there don’t seem to be much change in the values coming out following our first two ratings this year, both look to be coming out a point or two lower in slope but nothing material. There have been changes to the process but the impact is seemingly not large. The two courses we have rated so far this year couldn’t be more different, one is the widest open course you’ll ever see with few obstacles but moderately long and no trees, the other is a tight, tree lined short course - so it’s not as if the tweaks to the system impact one style of course over another.
I still believe thre must have been some serious error in the original or last rating at the course referenced in this thread. Given the yardage my bet would be on the latest rating.
 

Golfie

New member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
14
Visit site
How are you reviewing players handicaps (mostly seniors) who are no longer putting cards in because they don’t want their handicaps to go up?
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
3,440
Location
Bristol
Visit site
How are you reviewing players handicaps (mostly seniors) who are no longer putting cards in because they don’t want their handicaps to go up?
The purpose of handicapping should be explained to them and possibly their handicaps suspended/withdrawn until they have submitted sufficient scores for their records to reflect their ability.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,399
Location
Bristol
Visit site
How are you reviewing players handicaps (mostly seniors) who are no longer putting cards in because they don’t want their handicaps to go up?
I guess the first question is- are they still entering competitions? If so, are they ‘qualifying’ (so their HI might affect PCC)?
 
Top