The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

But the difference is that at that point (2013) City were already established...they'd had success, they had stable finances, they had good revenue stream and commercial partnerships....they'd had their billionaire owners in place for 5 years by then...they had a base to build from. You had won the FA Cup in 2011 and the had the Aguerooooo moment in 2012 - there were foundations upon which Pep could build.

This is incomparable to the situation at Newcastle in 2021 where there were no foundations in place at Newcastle....our revenue generating lines were virtually none existent, the team had no style or structure, our scouting networks were threadbare, our training facilties were of a League One standard, and obviously the financial restrictions that have played a part in the ongoing commercial development at Newcastle were something that City never faced.

So yes...you can be ruthless when there are solid foundations underneath you....but when they don't exist then solidity has to come from the pitch and consistent performances, whilst the business side of things catches up....and that means not chopping and changing managers every ten minutes.

Oh yeah....it is well known that your owners actually expressed an interest in Newcastle first, but never pursued it, because Mike Ashley dismissed them as not serious prospective purchasers of the club and couldnt be bothered to attend meetings with them or respond to communication. A real potential "sliding doors" moment eh?

I am led to believe they also showed an interest in arsenal but with the boardroom split it was an impossible job to buy all of the club.

 

[Beezerk]

@nickjdavis have you ever heard a decent suggestion for where a new stadium could be built? I haven't .

The current location is massive for the city, fans love it. It brings in massive amounts of money for the pubs, restaurants, cafes, takeaways in the centre. No way would the council want to lose that. Nor would the fans. It's part of the match day experience. Nowhere else could touch it (I'm expecting the council to never, rightly, agree to the town moor as an option)

They'll develop the current location, it's the best solution. Even with the difficulties it brings.

Ouseburn, loads of bars down there now

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Ouseburn, loads of bars down there now

Where the heck are you squeezing it in there?

We like a walk around Ouseburn, interesting place. And yes, some good bars . Not enough to satisfy the Toon army though

 

[nickjdavis]

@nickjdavis have you ever heard a decent suggestion for where a new stadium could be built? I haven't .

The current location is massive for the city, fans love it. It brings in massive amounts of money for the pubs, restaurants, cafes, takeaways in the centre. No way would the council want to lose that. Nor would the fans. It's part of the match day experience. Nowhere else could touch it (I'm expecting the council to never, rightly, agree to the town moor as an option)

They'll develop the current location, it's the best solution. Even with the difficulties it brings.

No not really.

Its not just "emotion" that makes me want to remain at SJP (there is no finer sight than approaching from the south of the city and seeing the stadium towering over the skyline....the Cathedral on the Hill is a truly fitting description)...the city center location is truly unique and, the matchday experience for both home AND visiting fans would be significantly diminished if the club moved to an "out of town" location. It is the sort of experience that is disappearing from that footballing calendar.

No matter our differences, whenever I talk to fans who have visited SJP, they all, to a man, woman and child, wax lyrical about the friendliness of the locals in and amongst the pubs, bars and restaurants on a matchday....and as you say...its a huge source of revenue for local businesses.

I don't however see that a simple expansion taking the current stadium to 60k (as seems to be mooted) is going far enough.

If a totally new stadium of around 70k seats was required, in the current location, then the only way i can see of achieving it would be to shift the stadium location 100 yards north-west and rotating it 45 degrees anticlockwise to allow some sort of partial building, whilst still allowing play at SJP and then the club would have to find a new home (though where the hell that might be is another subject!!) for a while whilst the rest of the new stadium is completed.....however I understand that even encroaching partially on to Castle Leazes Park has its own difficulties and plenty of scope for objection.

Ultimately though, I think experience shows that money does talk and, as such, whatever objections are, they will be eventually overcome...and as you say, the council does have a vested interest in the outcome.

 

[Orikoru]

Amorim seems like a massive gamble. Success in a third rate league, admittedly with a team that wasn't one of the 'big two' over there. But it's not really a departure from Ten Hag, who also only had success in a third rate league.

 

[Neilds]

I saw a good rant on Insta this week that, whilst tongue in cheek, did resonate a bit with me. The poster was ranting about set piece coaches, defensive coaches, attacking coaches, etc that all the top clubs employ now - think I even read last year about Liverpool having a throw in coach and saying, in days gone past, that was what the manager used to do, they coached the team. Nowadays, what do the managers actually do to improve the team? Many of the top managers don't seem the sort to be out on the training field so what do they do - press conferences and team hugs when they lose?

 

[Swango1980]

Amorim seems like a massive gamble. Success in a third rate league, admittedly with a team that wasn't one of the 'big two' over there. But it's not really a departure from Ten Hag, who also only had success in a third rate league.

Every single manager is a gamble. Southgate, Howe, Potter, Ruud, all gambles. And, some of them not gambles with great odds.

At any rate, all we can do is wait and see, rather than try and thing so negatively about it. Some of the best managers historically have had to start somewhere. Sir Alex was at Aberdeen in Scotland. Mourinho at Porto. Wenger at Monaco and then Nagoya Grampus Eight in Japan. I'm sure there were plenty of other decent managers that started in a third rate league. Not everyone can start in the top division in England, Spain or Italy and if they are decent enough, they will have to step up to one of those leagues eventually.

But is the new ownership model at Man Utd is going to take a much more active role in areas like recruitment, Youth Academy, etc then it will hopefully take a lot of the weight of whoever comes in.

 

[Orikoru]

I saw a good rant on Insta this week that, whilst tongue in cheek, did resonate a bit with me. The poster was ranting about set piece coaches, defensive coaches, attacking coaches, etc that all the top clubs employ now - think I even read last year about Liverpool having a throw in coach and saying, in days gone past, that was what the manager used to do, they coached the team. Nowadays, what do the managers actually do to improve the team? Many of the top managers don't seem the sort to be out on the training field so what do they do - press conferences and team hugs when they lose?

That's only worthwhile if it's Rory Delap.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I saw a good rant on Insta this week that, whilst tongue in cheek, did resonate a bit with me. The poster was ranting about set piece coaches, defensive coaches, attacking coaches, etc that all the top clubs employ now - think I even read last year about Liverpool having a throw in coach and saying, in days gone past, that was what the manager used to do, they coached the team. Nowadays, what do the managers actually do to improve the team? Many of the top managers don't seem the sort to be out on the training field so what do they do - press conferences and team hugs when they lose?

The number of specialist coaches has undoubtedly increased and it does seem a bit gimmicky. Managers frequently didn't coach though, even in the old days. You can go back to the Liverpool boot room of the 60's and 70's. A boot room of coaches.

In the past the coaching team would have split duties, set pieces would have been part of that. Having a dedicated coach for one thing, mmmmmmmm, seems a bit excessive and a kick in the teeth of existing coaching staff where it happens.

So, what does a manager do...tell the coaches what he wants, how he wants the team to play, which players are weak and need extra work. Then he lets them get on with it. He psycho analyses the players and works out what they need to get the best out of them. He sets the environment that he wants. The manager is an overseer on the whole, the nuts and bolts are dealt with by others. As we see though, that can all make a pretty big difference.

 

[Orikoru]

Every single manager is a gamble. Southgate, Howe, Potter, Ruud, all gambles. And, some of them not gambles with great odds.

At any rate, all we can do is wait and see, rather than try and thing so negatively about it. Some of the best managers historically have had to start somewhere. Sir Alex was at Aberdeen in Scotland. Mourinho at Porto. Wenger at Monaco and then Nagoya Grampus Eight in Japan. I'm sure there were plenty of other decent managers that started in a third rate league. Not everyone can start in the top division in England, Spain or Italy and if they are decent enough, they will have to step up to one of those leagues eventually.

But is the new ownership model at Man Utd is going to take a much more active role in areas like recruitment, Youth Academy, etc then it will hopefully take a lot of the weight of whoever comes in.

It's about relevant experience though. Howe & Potter have managed in the Premier League at least. Ferguson and Wenger were back in a different era, but Mourinho did win the actual bloody Champion's League from a third-rate league, which was unreal. If Amorim did that with Sporting then I'd say fair play! And usually there are steps if you come from one of those leagues, like doing well with a mid-table side before someone like United take a punt and give them a big job. But maybe I just haven't got used to the fact that United are a mid-table side now. I still think of them as a big club who would be looking at the world's best managers.

 

[Swango1980]

I saw a good rant on Insta this week that, whilst tongue in cheek, did resonate a bit with me. The poster was ranting about set piece coaches, defensive coaches, attacking coaches, etc that all the top clubs employ now - think I even read last year about Liverpool having a throw in coach and saying, in days gone past, that was what the manager used to do, they coached the team. Nowadays, what do the managers actually do to improve the team? Many of the top managers don't seem the sort to be out on the training field so what do they do - press conferences and team hugs when they lose?

Don't think Sir Alex ever really coached. He just managed all those beneath him, including his coaches to implement what we saw on the pitch. He basically managed the Club.

Some teams have a Manager, others have a Head Coach. I mean, a throw in coach seems mad, but I guess marginal gains are important. Although sometimes too many cooks must spoil the broth, so its about getting the right balance. I'm sure Pep has his stamp on everything Man City do, but then he has his trusted individual coaches who can then go and work on the detail with the players. Probably have little group sessions as well, where different parts of the team can go off and get their coaching in areas key to them.

 

[Junior]

Just read an article on how McTominay and Billy Gilmour are getting rave reviews for Napoli. The article said how they’ve been integral to Napoli being 4 points clear in Serie A, with Mctominay earning the nickname “McTotally” for his all round box to box game.

I’m please for the players but I was wondering if it’s because they are that good and we just never realised, or , is Serie A not as good as it used to be?

Let’s face it, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc were never going to sign them.

 

[Orikoru]

Just read an article on how McTominay and Billy Gilmour are getting rave reviews for Napoli. The article said how they’ve been integral to Napoli being 4 points clear in Serie A, with Mctominay earning the nickname “McTotally” for his all round box to box game.

I’m please for the players but I was wondering if it’s because they are that good and we just never realised, or , is Serie A not as good as it used to be?

Let’s face it, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc were never going to sign them.

McTominay bailed out Man Utd on countless occasions. I always felt he was one of their better players, particularly at scoring key goals. Underrated by fans and coaches because he wasn't a 'glamourous' type.

 

[Tashyboy]

Every single manager is a gamble. Southgate, Howe, Potter, Ruud, all gambles. And, some of them not gambles with great odds.

At any rate, all we can do is wait and see, rather than try and thing so negatively about it. Some of the best managers historically have had to start somewhere. Sir Alex was at Aberdeen in Scotland. Mourinho at Porto. Wenger at Monaco and then Nagoya Grampus Eight in Japan. I'm sure there were plenty of other decent managers that started in a third rate league. Not everyone can start in the top division in England, Spain or Italy and if they are decent enough, they will have to step up to one of those leagues eventually.

But is the new ownership model at Man Utd is going to take a much more active role in areas like recruitment, Youth Academy, etc then it will hopefully take a lot of the weight of whoever comes in.

Ave said this before when Peps name comes up. “ he has always coached good teams “. His first job was Barca “ 2nd “ team. He actually got rid of the third team and had just a reserves. He did a fantastic job with them and got the Barca job ahead of Mourinho. But it was an uncertain gamble by Barca to give him the job with a few having reservations. He inherited a disfunctional squad and one of his first jobs was getting rid of Ronaldinho.

 

[Tashyboy]

Just read an article on how McTominay and Billy Gilmour are getting rave reviews for Napoli. The article said how they’ve been integral to Napoli being 4 points clear in Serie A, with Mctominay earning the nickname “McTotally” for his all round box to box game.

I’m please for the players but I was wondering if it’s because they are that good and we just never realised, or , is Serie A not as good as it used to be?

Let’s face it, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc were never going to sign them.

The thing is, you are looking at McTominay being box to box alongside Casimero and Ericsson. Not being disrespectful to either of them coz they had been fantastic before arriving at Utd. But there best years are behind them. Mainoo and McTominay should have been the future for Utd. But and this is the massive but. At Napoli you have Conte who is meticulous at telling players what is required within the system. At Utd you had ETH.
I read the piece you mentioned and Conte has transformed that team. Something Utd hope Amorin can do.

 

[Swango1980]

McTominay bailed out Man Utd on countless occasions. I always felt he was one of their better players, particularly at scoring key goals. Underrated by fans and coaches because he wasn't a 'glamourous' type.

He wasn't under-rated. I think United fans were all aware that he could score a goal if the opportunity presented itself. I don't think any United players questioned his work rate either.

But, he was incredibly slow. Often, if he didn't score, you wouldn't even notice he was on the pitch. He was often in the right place 5 seconds too slow. Hence why I wouldn't have thought any of the top clubs would be rushing to sign him. I suppose many Man Utd fans were conflicted. They liked the guy, but at the same time, if there was any ambition for Utd to become a force again, and play nice possession football, McTomminay was unlikely going to be a key figure in that. When we had Fred as well, the term McFred used by all other non Man Utd fans wasn't a compliment to either of them.

However, stick him in another side, who do things differently and have different players around him, then there was always a chance he could do very well. I like the guy, so I really hope it works out well for him

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No messing about, Amorim has been appointed, starts on 11th Nov.

 

[Mandofred]

I can't believe I'm actually posting on a football thread.....

Concerning stadium location....the only UK football team I check up on every week is Wycombe. My first 5 years in the UK were in High Wycombe. Back in the early 80's I ran a lot and I used to occasionally run past the Wycombe stadium....I thought it was a great location, easy for everybody in the town area to walk to. A couple of years ago I got to reminiscing on Google maps and was looking for the stadium. I couldn't find it....I had to look up the location and turned out they moved it out of town to the North? No idea if it was a good move or not, I did notice I think where the stadium was is a new hospital....so probably a good move. I used to run for Wycombe Phoenix and looked for their track at Handy Cross up on top of the hill....it was gone as well. Moved it to a better location though...over towards Marlow and off the bloody hill with the wind.

Can't exactly call myself a Wycombe fan though....I couldn't tell you one players name.

 

[Neilds]

I can't believe I'm actually posting on a football thread.....

Concerning stadium location....the only UK football team I check up on every week is Wycombe. My first 5 years in the UK were in High Wycombe. Back in the early 80's I ran a lot and I used to occasionally run past the Wycombe stadium....I thought it was a great location, easy for everybody in the town area to walk to. A couple of years ago I got to reminiscing on Google maps and was looking for the stadium. I couldn't find it....I had to look up the location and turned out they moved it out of town to the North? No idea if it was a good move or not, I did notice I think where the stadium was is a new hospital....so probably a good move. I used to run for Wycombe Phoenix and looked for their track at Handy Cross up on top of the hill....it was gone as well. Moved it to a better location though...over towards Marlow and off the bloody hill with the wind.

Can't exactly call myself a Wycombe fan though....I couldn't tell you one players name.

I was in training at RAF Halton between 87-90 and shared a room with a Southampton fan. We noticed in the local press that Wycombe were having a friendly with Saints to officially open their new ground and we went along. Think the 2nd match was against Arsenal and we could buy a joint ticket to cover both matches. Been back a few times since to watch Rotherham Utd play there and like the fact that parking is so easy - all the businesses that line the road up to the ground open up their car parks for a couple of quid a car.

 

[4LEX]

I can't believe I'm actually posting on a football thread.....

Concerning stadium location....the only UK football team I check up on every week is Wycombe. My first 5 years in the UK were in High Wycombe. Back in the early 80's I ran a lot and I used to occasionally run past the Wycombe stadium....I thought it was a great location, easy for everybody in the town area to walk to. A couple of years ago I got to reminiscing on Google maps and was looking for the stadium. I couldn't find it....I had to look up the location and turned out they moved it out of town to the North? No idea if it was a good move or not, I did notice I think where the stadium was is a new hospital....so probably a good move. I used to run for Wycombe Phoenix and looked for their track at Handy Cross up on top of the hill....it was gone as well. Moved it to a better location though...over towards Marlow and off the bloody hill with the wind.

Can't exactly call myself a Wycombe fan though....I couldn't tell you one players name.

Wycombe are doing well this season, probably a bit of a false position but should finish in or around the Play Offs. The new stadium is stuck on a dead end so hard to get to but I've always liked it. Good away end, excellent main stand, terraced home end and one tiny stand as a nod to their non league past.