The Footie Thread

[Golfmmad]

Once through the carnage otherwise known as roadworks on Chester Road last night, with the last two miles taking an hour, a really enjoyable game of football.

Some solid performances, good goals, but the thing which really stood out for me was that the players appeared to have had a massive weight lifted from them, and actually enjoyed themselves. And as a result there was nowhere near the anxiety in the stands that there has been for such a long time.

Shame that I missed all the “fun” on the WHS thread, but that’s a small price to pay. A great few hours with the kids at a good game of football.

Surprised you even go on the WHS thread

I watched brief highlights of Man United game last night. What a goal by Casimero, you didn't mention that either
But he looked like a player 10 years younger!

 

[Swango1980]

Once through the carnage otherwise known as roadworks on Chester Road last night, with the last two miles taking an hour, a really enjoyable game of football.

Some solid performances, good goals, but the thing which really stood out for me was that the players appeared to have had a massive weight lifted from them, and actually enjoyed themselves. And as a result there was nowhere near the anxiety in the stands that there has been for such a long time.

Shame that I missed all the “fun” on the WHS thread, but that’s a small price to pay. A great few hours with the kids at a good game of football.

Deja Vu for me, exactly what happened when Mourinho left. When things get tough, many of those players go missing, hide behind the manager getting the blame. Manager goes, players perk up a bit because they fully believed it was all the managers fault, not theirs, and suddenly play with energy. Lasts a while, until they hit their next rocky patch, then they revert to type, and assume it is the managers fault, not theirs.

Don't get me wrong, delighted with the performance last night. Honestly felt like we could have scored 7 or 8 in the first half alone, albeit against a weakened Leicester. But, it will probably take me a lot longer before I ever regain any trust that many of these players can stick at it consistently over a season.

Thought Ugarte was excellent, hope that starts a nice run in the side for him. Casemiro's first goal, I enjoyed that strike.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I hope this settles the debate;

View attachment 55663

One squirrel a summer does not make.

 

[Billysboots]

Surprised you even go on the WHS thread

I watched brief highlights of Man United game last night. What a goal by Casimero, you didn't mention that either
But he looked like a player 10 years younger!

We were in the North Stand about level with Casemiro when he pulled the trigger so had a great view of it. Unbelievable strike and he had a good all round game.

I did wonder if Dalot might have been offside for the second, but another good move and great ball for Garnacho to finish.

All that being said, United have created these chances this season and just not finished them off, so I won’t get carried away. But it was nice to be there for the first game post ten Hag - the whole place just seemed much less gloomy.

 

[Swango1980]

We were in the North Stand about level with Casemiro when he pulled the trigger so had a great view of it. Unbelievable strike and he had a good all round game.

I did wonder if Dalot might have been offside for the second, but another good move and great ball for Garnacho to finish.

All that being said, United have created these chances this season and just not finished them off, so I won’t get carried away. But it was nice to be there for the first game post ten Hag - the whole place just seemed much less gloomy.

Well, it wasn't raining, so at least you managed to stay dry in the stadium. Fans will be thankful for that

 

[nickjdavis]

Don’t know who it was on here but they compared the English managers in the prem to German managers in Bundesliga, Spanish managers in La Liga etc. the % is shocking. I honestly think that Newcastle could and should have gone for someone like Amorim etc. nothing against EH. He is good but not brilliant.

Do you really think Amorim or a similar stature of manager would have come to Newcastle, when they were in the bottom 3, 5 points adrift of safety with just under 1/3rd of the season gone?

We needed a certain type of manager to do a certain job. EH was the perfect appointment at that time.

 

[Billysboots]

Well, it wasn't raining, so at least you managed to stay dry in the stadium. Fans will be thankful for that

Mate, those fans of other teams who haven’t been to Old Trafford are very quick to jump on the bandwagon about the stadium.

Dated it may be in many respects, but it’s not falling down, and is still a fabulous place to watch football, especially under floodlights.

 

[Swango1980]

Mate, those fans of other teams who haven’t been to Old Trafford are very quick to jump on the bandwagon about the stadium.

Dated it may be in many respects, but it’s not falling down, and is still a fabulous place to watch football, especially under floodlights.

No doubt, my statement was very much tongue in cheek

It's like a lot of stuff regarding Utd at the moment. Find the smallest fault, and then blow it out of all proportion to keep hammering them while they're down. If Utd had been decent on the pitch, I bet none of us would have ever heard about the leak in the roof, unless we were sat right under it

 

[Billysboots]

No doubt, my statement was very much tongue in cheek

Oh, I know! I was referring to the wider view of others of all things United, so much of which is far from reality.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Oh, I know! I was referring to the wider view of others of all things United, so much of which is far from reality.

It’s needs a bit of a polish and patch

Not sure if there is a need for a complete rebuild of a new stadium

 

[nickjdavis]

He makes some valid points but rules change all of the time in sport. Comparing the Saudi Ownership to Jack Walker isnt a true comparison. Where Newcastle have failed is sticking with Eddie Howe and overspending on some of the signings. I dont think Howe will ever be able to consistently compete at the highest level.

So Newcastle should have replaced Howe exactly when? Immediately after staving off relegation? Immediately after finishing 4th in the PL? After losing the Carabao Cup final? After finishing 7th in the PL during a season where the team was utterly ravaged by injuries and unable to cope with the added fixture demands that the CL brought? Or should they have dumped him after the first few games of this season?

Ultimately you may well be correct when you say that Howe may not compete at the highest level, but for the last couple of years the club has needed stability, not the chaos that inevitably gets induced when clubs start swapping managers.

Interested in what signings you consider that Newcastle have overspent on? Chris Wood at 25m is perhaps about the only obvious one....but it had the mitigating effect of denying a club (Burnley) who Newcastle were fighting with against relegation, a key attacking talent.

 

[Don Barzini]

He makes some valid points but rules change all of the time in sport. Comparing the Saudi Ownership to Jack Walker isnt a true comparison. Where Newcastle have failed is sticking with Eddie Howe and overspending on some of the signings. I dont think Howe will ever be able to consistently compete at the highest level.

Maybe. I don't have a strong opinion on Newcastle themselves, or on Howe. Points he was making about how they aren't allowed to spend was why I posted it. The rules just don't allow it and that's why many of us see the famous six as having "protected" status. Other clubs simply aren't allowed to match them - even if they can afford to do so!

 

[Don Barzini]

Chris Wood at 25m is perhaps about the only obvious one

Chris Wood is worth about three times that, currently!

 

[nickjdavis]

Chris Wood is worth about three times that, currently!

Indeed...maybe 25m was undervalued.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

It’s needs a bit of a polish and patch

Not sure if there is a need for a complete rebuild of a new stadium

Or anyone but Utd only funding it.

 

[Morfeen75]

So Newcastle should have replaced Howe exactly when? Immediately after staving off relegation? Immediately after finishing 4th in the PL? After losing the Carabao Cup final? After finishing 7th in the PL during a season where the team was utterly ravaged by injuries and unable to cope with the added fixture demands that the CL brought? Or should they have dumped him after the first few games of this season?

Ultimately you may well be correct when you say that Howe may not compete at the highest level, but for the last couple of years the club has needed stability, not the chaos that inevitably gets induced when clubs start swapping managers.

Interested in what signings you consider that Newcastle have overspent on? Chris Wood at 25m is perhaps about the only obvious one....but it had the mitigating effect of denying a club (Burnley) who Newcastle were fighting with against relegation, a key attacking talent.

Chris Wood @£30m
Joe Wilock @29.4m
Lewis Hall @33m
Isak @ £70m

You could argue Isak is paying for himself with regards to his goal return, but it is still an excessive fee and the books have to be balanced. Newcastle had to let go of an emergung talent this summer, that looks to me like poor financial management. I know Howe isnt responsible for this dept.

Getting rid of Howe this summer was probably the right time imo.
He's done a great job to date but i dont see him breaking into the top 4 and staying there. Champions league revenue is critical to the growth of football teams. Look at Arsenal under Wenger.

What would you say is acceptable from Howe and Newcastle this season?

 

[Bdill93]

Chris Wood @£30m
Joe Wilock @29.4m
Lewis Hall @33m
Isak @ £70m

You could argue Isak is paying for himself with regards to his goal return, but it is still an excessive fee and the books have to be balanced. Newcastle had to let go of an emergung talent this summer, that looks to me like poor financial management. I know Howe isnt responsible for this dept.

Getting rid of Howe this summer was probably the right time imo.
He's done a great job to date but i dont see him breaking into the top 4 and staying there. Champions league revenue is critical to the growth of football teams. Look at Arsenal under Wenger.

What would you say is acceptable from Howe and Newcastle this season?

You missed Tonali... could be good in time though!

I dont think Howe is the issue - its the PSR stuff holding them back.

Thing is - I dont really get PSR enough to know why it is. Their new owners have been in for a couple of years now, PSR runs over the last 3 season I believe so 2 of their 3 will be new ownership is my assumption?

They need to start investing in a world class academy facility to help generate cash for the first team, much like City and Chelsea.

 

[Morfeen75]

Maybe. I don't have a strong opinion on Newcastle themselves, or on Howe. Points he was making about how they aren't allowed to spend was why I posted it. The rules just don't allow it and that's why many of us see the famous six as having "protected" status. Other clubs simply aren't allowed to match them - even if they can afford to do so!

You still banging the protected six drum

They arent allowed to spend whatever they want because 14 other PL teams have voted in favour of a rule change not because of the famous six whoever they are.

I very much doubt Manchester City are voting for more stringent spending rules. I can understand the clubs with American owners voting for it as i have a good understanding of how American Business's are ran.

I may be wrong but Chelsea look as if they dont qualify for Champions League this season then they will be in an awkward financial position given what theyve spent recently.

 

[Swango1980]

Maybe. I don't have a strong opinion on Newcastle themselves, or on Howe. Points he was making about how they aren't allowed to spend was why I posted it. The rules just don't allow it and that's why many of us see the famous six as having "protected" status. Other clubs simply aren't allowed to match them - even if they can afford to do so!

FFP also restricts the top clubs as well. Remove it, they'd just spend even more.

Sure, out of the hundreds of other clubs in England, one or two might get multi-billionaire owners that can also spend a few bob or two, those those clubs can leave all the other clubs that were around them in their wake and create an even bigger divide between the rich and poor. And, I suspect multi-billionaire owners might be more attracted to bigger clubs anyway, clubs that already have a huge global profile and already generate a whole load of money.

If you were to pick out the traditional "top 6 clubs", some of them are not in the top 6 when it comes to highest net spend this summer, or even since 2020 (based on a random site I searched that compared since 2020). If there was zero FFP, I would not be surprised if those traditional top 6 clubs would pretty much all be top of the list, except perhaps another might feature if they were bought by a nation who like to spend money like confetti. The top 6 clubs, along with the odd other club that gets the nation state owner, could then just increase the spending gap between the rich and the poor, and very much leave everyone in their wake.

 

[nickjdavis]

Chris Wood @£30m
Joe Wilock @29.4m
Lewis Hall @33m
Isak @ £70m

You could argue Isak is paying for himself with regards to his goal return, but it is still an excessive fee and the books have to be balanced. Newcastle had to let go of an emergung talent this summer, that looks to me like poor financial management. I know Howe isnt responsible for this dept.

Getting rid of Howe this summer was probably the right time imo.
He's done a great job to date but i dont see him breaking into the top 4 and staying there. Champions league revenue is critical to the growth of football teams. Look at Arsenal under Wenger.

What would you say is acceptable from Howe and Newcastle this season?

• Wood I agree that was too much, with the previously noted caveat.
• Willock was signed under the Steve Bruce regime in August 2021 before the PIF takeover was completed. Probably has flattered to deceive at times but at his best can be a devastating force in midfield with his powerful running.
• Lewis Hall will be a future England left back...sometimes you have to invest for the future....a lot of money at the time but anyone who has watched the England U-21's will have seen the assuredness and composure the player has displayed. He is yet to get a serious run in the Newcastle first team but that is exactly how Howe has managed new arrivals...Guimares, Gordon, Livramento have all completed a long bedding in process whilst they acclimatize to Howe's tactical and fitness requirements.
• Isak...10 goals in 22 games, 21 goals in 30 games in his first two "full" seasons suggests he is a goal every other game striker...which is a pretty decent return even for the price....if he can keep his fitness and continues to bag goals then if one of the "big boys" come sniffing around then we will make some sort of significant profit on him if sold.

Yes it was disappointing to lose Anderson and Minteh in the summer and I'd agree that there has probably been some sort of "overstretching" (rather than mis-management) in the early PIF months in order to drag us away from the mire we were in in late 2021.

As for expectations and acceptable for this season?

When PIF took over these were my "hopes" for the next few years...

2021/22 was simply a case of survival...we ultimately finished 12th
2022/23 should have been mid table consolidation, instead we went daft and finished 4th
2023/24 should have been challenging for a European place, just fell short
2024/25 we should be in a European qualification spot...its been a tough start to the season, team isn't playing well (so far) and have lacked the high intensity that epitomised the style of play from the previous two seasons...part of that might be to do with the new Performance Director (James Bunce) having an input on the training intensity, with a view to trying to reduce the injury issues that we suffered last season.

It doesn't help that expectation (especially expectation that has been thrust upon us by the media) has been heightened by the CL qualification in 22/23...its as though the wider world think that should now be the norm for Newcastle....hopefully my feet are a bit closer to the ground.
At the end of the day though there are usually only 6 or 7 places for Europe up from grabs....you could argue that, as well as the big six, you have Newcastle, Brighton, Villa all who think/beleive that they should occupy one of those places....and it doesnt take a genius to work out that 9 into 6(or7) doesnt go....someone will miss out.