The Footie Thread

[road2ruin]

It's like a lot of stuff regarding Utd at the moment. Find the smallest fault, and then blow it out of all proportion to keep hammering them while they're down.

Sky are pretty good at this sort of thing. Take the Amorim appointment, all the press had been lauding him (inc. Sky) and what a great appointment he would be, potentially Pep's successor. Suddenly he's taking over at United and Sky's pundits are telling everyone how managing in the EPL is completely different to Portugal and it's a massive risk! Of course it's a risk, any manager moving to the EPL is going to find it different however he was the 'Second Coming' a few months back and now he's a massive risk as United are in for him.

 

[Don Barzini]

I may be wrong but Chelsea look as if they dont qualify for Champions League this season then they will be in an awkward financial position given what theyve spent recently.

They’ll just sell a couple of hotels to themselves and it’ll be fine.

 

[Don Barzini]

♫♫ PL MANAGER OF THE MONTH NOMINATION DESPITE SERVING A TOUCHLINE BAN FOR TWO OUT OF THE THREE GAMES....

YOU'LL NEVER SING THAT! ♫♫

Premier League Award - Barclays Manager of the Month, October 2024

Premier League Manager from October 2024, on the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

 

[road2ruin]

According to Fabrizio it's job done.....

"Rúben Amorim: “I like everything about the Premier League!”.“Man United? Tomorrow after the game I will tell you everything, I will clarify my situation. Now let’s focus on the game”. The agreement is 100% done as Rúben Amorim will become Man Utd manager from Nov 11."

 

[PJ87]

According to Fabrizio it's job done.....

"Rúben Amorim: “I like everything about the Premier League!”.“Man United? Tomorrow after the game I will tell you everything, I will clarify my situation. Now let’s focus on the game”. The agreement is 100% done as Rúben Amorim will become Man Utd manager from Nov 11."

Makes David Sullivan look even more of an idiot

He agreed personal terms with us in the summer, but Sullivan is too cheap to pay the £10 million compo for him

Not when he can get premier league experience, with real Madrid on his CV for free

Always cheaping out

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Makes David Sullivan look even more of an idiot

He agreed personal terms with us in the summer, but Sullivan is too cheap to pay the £10 million compo for him

Not when he can get premier league experience, with real Madrid on his CV for free

Always cheaping out

To get a manager £10mil isn’t cheap plus the wages he was asking for ( close to another £10mil )

Successful in Portugal but a lot of money for some clubs to risk

 

[PJ87]

To get a manager £10mil isn’t cheap plus the wages he was asking for ( close to another £10mil )

Successful in Portugal but a lot of money for some clubs to risk

Willing to spend £100 million odd on players (£25 million for a young Brazilian winger who's played 20 mins so far) but won't pay for a very highly rated manager

It's always been the same

When Moyes originally wasn't kept on it was just because he spunked his pants that he could get MP a premier league winning manager for free. Couldn't resist

We would have been better off keeping Moyes then

 

[Swango1980]

Willing to spend £100 million odd on players (£25 million for a young Brazilian winger who's played 20 mins so far) but won't pay for a very highly rated manager

It's always been the same

When Moyes originally wasn't kept on it was just because he spunked his pants that he could get MP a premier league winning manager for free. Couldn't resist

We would have been better off keeping Moyes then

I always think the same thing.

Surely, the most important person within the players and coaching staff is the first team coach / manager??? You can have a great player, but still play terribly as a team. You can have pretty average players, but play great as a team with the right coach.

When people were talking about the compensation Man Utd would need to pay for Amorim, I thought it was peanuts. If you are willing to splash nearly £100 million on Antony or tens of millions on someone like Casemiro who was getting on a bit, if you think Amorim is the man to transform how Man Utd play as a team, he must be worth at least £500 million in comparison .

Pretty much all Premier League clubs would spend up to £20 million pounds on a 3rd choice keeper. So, to get a coach you think will transform the club for less than that is a true bargain.

 

[Tashyboy]

Do you really think Amorim or a similar stature of manager would have come to Newcastle, when they were in the bottom 3, 5 points adrift of safety with just under 1/3rd of the season gone?

We needed a certain type of manager to do a certain job. EH was the perfect appointment at that time.

Nope I don’t think he would, but at that point Newcastle didn’t have billions or the players to take them to another level. but Amorin is on his way to Utd to try and do a better job with players that are not on a par at Newcastle. For Utd to match and overtake Newcastle. They have to spend. And Amorin could of done that at Newcastle

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Nope I don’t think he would, but at that point Newcastle didn’t have billions or the players to take them to another level. but Amorin is on his way to Utd to try and do a better job with players that are not on a par at Newcastle. For Utd to match and overtake Newcastle. They have to spend. And Amorin could of done that at Newcastle

Eddie Howe took over after the club was bought out by PIF

 

[Tashyboy]

So Newcastle should have replaced Howe exactly when? Immediately after staving off relegation? Immediately after finishing 4th in the PL? After losing the Carabao Cup final? After finishing 7th in the PL during a season where the team was utterly ravaged by injuries and unable to cope with the added fixture demands that the CL brought? Or should they have dumped him after the first few games of this season?

Ultimately you may well be correct when you say that Howe may not compete at the highest level, but for the last couple of years the club has needed stability, not the chaos that inevitably gets induced when clubs start swapping managers.

Interested in what signings you consider that Newcastle have overspent on? Chris Wood at 25m is perhaps about the only obvious one....but it had the mitigating effect of denying a club (Burnley) who Newcastle were fighting with against relegation, a key attacking talent.

At either point yes yes and yes. City got rid of Pelligrini when they had won the premier league for a manager who 8 years ago was not going to stick around ( Pep). Unfortunately you have to be ruthless to be successful. If Ancelloti became available and expressed a back door interest in Newcastle. They would be fools to turn him down.
I think it was Alex who said about ETH appointment at Utd that he said he is not good enough. Took a few years but he was right.

 

[nickjdavis]

Eddie Howe took over after the club was bought out by PIF

Correct. PIF takeover announced 6th October 2021. Eddie Howe announced on 8th November 2021.

Irrespective of that....with the club languishing 5 points adrift of safety I don't think the sort of players that would cost several tens of millions would even have considered coming to Newcastle....so even if the money was available to spend I'm not sure we could actually have spent it!!!

Tripper (£12m), Wood (£25m) , Guimares (£35m) and Burn (13m) were the players to arrive the following January, along with Targett who joined on loan.

 

[nickjdavis]

At either point yes yes and yes. City got rid of Pelligrini when they had won the premier league for a manager who 8 years ago was not going to stick around ( Pep). Unfortunately you have to be ruthless to be successful. If Ancelloti became available and expressed a back door interest in Newcastle. They would be fools to turn him down.
I think it was Alex who said about ETH appointment at Utd that he said he is not good enough. Took a few years but he was right.

But the difference is that at that point (2013) City were already established...they'd had success, they had stable finances, they had good revenue stream and commercial partnerships....they'd had their billionaire owners in place for 5 years by then...they had a base to build from. You had won the FA Cup in 2011 and the had the Aguerooooo moment in 2012 - there were foundations upon which Pep could build.

This is incomparable to the situation at Newcastle in 2021 where there were no foundations in place at Newcastle....our revenue generating lines were virtually none existent, the team had no style or structure, our scouting networks were threadbare, our training facilties were of a League One standard, and obviously the financial restrictions that have played a part in the ongoing commercial development at Newcastle were something that City never faced.

So yes...you can be ruthless when there are solid foundations underneath you....but when they don't exist then solidity has to come from the pitch and consistent performances, whilst the business side of things catches up....and that means not chopping and changing managers every ten minutes.

Oh yeah....it is well known that your owners actually expressed an interest in Newcastle first, but never pursued it, because Mike Ashley dismissed them as not serious prospective purchasers of the club and couldnt be bothered to attend meetings with them or respond to communication. A real potential "sliding doors" moment eh?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

At either point yes yes and yes. City got rid of Pelligrini when they had won the premier league for a manager who 8 years ago was not going to stick around ( Pep). Unfortunately you have to be ruthless to be successful. If Ancelloti became available and expressed a back door interest in Newcastle. They would be fools to turn him down.
I think it was Alex who said about ETH appointment at Utd that he said he is not good enough. Took a few years but he was right.

Did he not leave at the end of his contract

 

[Tashyboy]

But the difference is that at that point (2013) City were already established...they'd had success, they had stable finances, they had good revenue stream and commercial partnerships....they'd had their billionaire owners in place for 5 years by then...they had a base to build from. You had won the FA Cup in 2011 and the had the Aguerooooo moment in 2012 - there were foundations upon which Pep could build.

This is incomparable to the situation at Newcastle in 2021 where there were no foundations in place at Newcastle....our revenue generating lines were virtually none existent, the team had no style or structure, our scouting networks were threadbare, our training facilties were of a League One standard, and obviously the financial restrictions that have played a part in the ongoing commercial development at Newcastle were something that City never faced.

So yes...you can be ruthless when there are solid foundations underneath you....but when they don't exist then solidity has to come from the pitch and consistent performances, whilst the business side of things catches up....and that means not chopping and changing managers every ten minutes.

So at what point does Howe go. Cannot disagree with what you say about City. But the sacking of Pelligrini upset a lot of City fans. But that is now forgotten as City have kicked on. Newcastle need to kick on from an owners point of view

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But the difference is that at that point (2013) City were already established...they'd had success, they had stable finances, they had good revenue stream and commercial partnerships....they'd had their billionaire owners in place for 5 years by then...they had a base to build from. You had won the FA Cup in 2011 and the had the Aguerooooo moment in 2012 - there were foundations upon which Pep could build.

This is incomparable to the situation at Newcastle in 2021 where there were no foundations in place at Newcastle....our revenue generating lines were virtually none existent, the team had no style or structure, our scouting networks were threadbare, our training facilties were of a League One standard, and obviously the financial restrictions that have played a part in the ongoing commercial development at Newcastle were something that City never faced.

So yes...you can be ruthless when there are solid foundations underneath you....but when they don't exist then solidity has to come from the pitch and consistent performances, whilst the business side of things catches up....and that means not chopping and changing managers every ten minutes.

They were already cooking the books as well

 

[nickjdavis]

So at what point does Howe go. Cannot disagree with what you say about City. But the sacking of Pelligrini upset a lot of City fans. But that is now forgotten as City have kicked on. Newcastle need to kick on from an owners point of view

Yes I agree that we now need to look to "kick on"....you've seen in previous posts my thoughts about where we should be and I guess that if we fall some way short of European football this season (lets say we finished 9th/10th/11th) then Howe's position would be seriously "considered" by the owners...but, if we were to "just miss out" there's no point making a change for the sake of it....the right person has to be brought in....you cant make a panic sacking just because a "name" is suddenly available....they have to be right for the club.

Once more revenue is avaialble (once robust commercial deals have been put in place) and we have a bit more flexibility in being able to pursue players and perhaps pursue players in positions that genuinely need strengthening...if you actually look at our squad from the pre-PIF takeover from the 2020/21 season, then the following players are still with the club from when Steve Bruce was manager...

Dubravka, Gillespie, Schar, Lewis (currently away on loan), Krafth, Lascelles, Murphy, Almiron, Willock, Longstaff, Joelinton, Wilson

and only relatively recently have players who played under Bruce such as Darlow, Dummett, Hendrick, Fernadez, Manquillo, St-Maximin, Ritchie, Fraser, Hayden been hoyed oot the door.

This certainly indicates some degree of failing in the transfer market and an inability to get some money in for "dead wood" (not all cases) has certainly held Newcastle back a bit....but again thats somewhat down to having hands tied by the poor foundations left by the previous regime.

So....unless something disastrous happens this season then I think Howe should get the 2025/26 season to see where he can take the team and if by then we are firmly not fighting for the top four then perhaps its time to bring a new manager in. Unfortunately though...as i've said previously....there will be six or seven teams thinking the same...and they don't all fit into four places.

I do however think that Staveley's leaving the club has somewhat robbed Howe of an ally within the senior management structure, and as such his position is naturally weaker than it has been in the past.

Of course the other big thing looming over the club is the stadium. Redevelop or move? Both have significant pro's and con's.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@nickjdavis have you ever heard a decent suggestion for where a new stadium could be built? I haven't .

The current location is massive for the city, fans love it. It brings in massive amounts of money for the pubs, restaurants, cafes, takeaways in the centre. No way would the council want to lose that. Nor would the fans. It's part of the match day experience. Nowhere else could touch it (I'm expecting the council to never, rightly, agree to the town moor as an option)

They'll develop the current location, it's the best solution. Even with the difficulties it brings.

 

[Tashyboy]

Yes I agree that we now need to look to "kick on"....you've seen in previous posts my thoughts about where we should be and I guess that if we fall some way short of European football this season (lets say we finished 9th/10th/11th) then Howe's position would be seriously "considered" by the owners...but, if we were to "just miss out" there's no point making a change for the sake of it....the right person has to be brought in....you cant make a panic sacking just because a "name" is suddenly available....they have to be right for the club.

Once more revenue is avaialble (once robust commercial deals have been put in place) and we have a bit more flexibility in being able to pursue players and perhaps pursue players in positions that genuinely need strengthening...if you actually look at our squad from the pre-PIF takeover from the 2020/21 season, then the following players are still with the club from when Steve Bruce was manager...

Dubravka, Gillespie, Schar, Lewis (currently away on loan), Krafth, Lascelles, Murphy, Almiron, Willock, Longstaff, Joelinton, Wilson

and only relatively recently have players who played under Bruce such as Darlow, Dummett, Hendrick, Fernadez, Manquillo, St-Maximin, Ritchie, Fraser, Hayden been hoyed oot the door.

This certainly indicates some degree of failing in the transfer market and an inability to get some money in for "dead wood" (not all cases) has certainly held Newcastle back a bit....but again thats somewhat down to having hands tied by the poor foundations left by the previous regime.

So....unless something disastrous happens this season then I think Howe should get the 2025/26 season to see where he can take the team and if by then we are firmly not fighting for the top four then perhaps its time to bring a new manager in. Unfortunately though...as i've said previously....there will be six or seven teams thinking the same...and they don't all fit into four places.

I do however think that Staveley's leaving the club has somewhat robbed Howe of an ally within the senior management structure, and as such his position is naturally weaker than it has been in the past.

Of course the other big thing looming over the club is the stadium. Redevelop or move? Both have significant pro's and con's.

For me, the thing about Howe is he is not doing a great deal wrong and I don’t hear many grumbling if any from the fans. Him going could well upset the apple cart. But that depends who if anyone was brought in.
The bit I have highlighted is the 64,000 dollar question. A few years back, City got some serious sponsorship deals. The amount of these deals were questioned, and not just by the premier league but other top teams. Citys response was they were excellent deals for the sponsors as they bought into future worldwide exposure. It did, and helped finder bigger deals from companies outside of the Middle East. Furthermore, City suggested other clubs sponsorship deals were somewhat undersold. If Newcastle can get the right deals it could be massive for them.

 

[Tashyboy]

@nickjdavis have you ever heard a decent suggestion for where a new stadium could be built? I haven't .

The current location is massive for the city, fans love it. It brings in massive amounts of money for the pubs, restaurants, cafes, takeaways in the centre. No way would the council want to lose that. Nor would the fans. It's part of the match day experience. Nowhere else could touch it (I'm expecting the council to never, rightly, agree to the town moor as an option)

They'll develop the current location, it's the best solution. Even with the difficulties it brings.

Leicester, Derby, Doncaster and I am sure there’s a few more have moved into industrial areas. Rather soulless areas for me. Newcastle like Utd need to stay where they are, even with the geographical problems it has.