The Footie Thread

[Slime]

I read that the Lionesses Manager was in the mix.
My initial reaction was ..nah.. after the Spanish debacle and Chelsea thing I have felt leave the women’s game alone and keep them out of the men’s game.
But then I wondered what the dynamic would be ? Are these players disciplined , do they do as they are told ( Gareth told them to pass backwards- allegedly ) . Would they respect a lady manager ?
I then concluded (rightly or wrongly) that it could be too much of an experiment and performances could fizzle out completely.. but I would argue it wouldn’t be the manager’s fault, it would be the players and establishment that would be root cause.

Let another international team go down that road first.
I, for one, can only see it ending badly.

 

[harpo_72]

Let another international team go down that road first.
I, for one, can only see it ending badly.

Yeah I think you’re probably right and it would be damaging to both parties when it goes wrong.
I think perhaps the key here is to tell the players that they have a finite opportunity to win these tournaments. Winning the league, fa … etc can happen every year.. they lack the importance of these international tournaments.
But if you increase the frequency of international tournaments they will lose their importance

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Let another international team go down that road first.
I, for one, can only see it ending badly.

Definitely. I am sure technically their coaching is equal but it is all the other stuff around it that will be the stumbling blocks. Definitely one for someone else to try first

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Let another international team go down that road first.
I, for one, can only see it ending badly.

You don't do a trial run with the key international team. If someone wants to try a female coach in the men's game, let them try at club level. Do well, take it from there. Just thinking you can transfer the skills is crackers, different environment, entirely different level.

 

[harpo_72]

You don't do a trial run with the key international team. If someone wants to try a female coach in the men's game, let them try at club level. Do well, take it from there. Just thinking you can transfer the skills is crackers, different environment, entirely different level.

But you could actually carry over this principle to who ever they select as the manager going forward.. but I do feel the importance of the international tournaments should be made clear .. the Ben White situation cannot occur again, and the premiership should have its schedule reduced.

On another note I saw a proposed Man Utd line up and of the playing 11 there was only 2 English players .. pretty sure that’s common in the top teams, but I would argue that’s not enough.

 

[clubchamp98]

I read that the Lionesses Manager was in the mix.
My initial reaction was ..nah.. after the Spanish debacle and Chelsea thing I have felt leave the women’s game alone and keep them out of the men’s game.
But then I wondered what the dynamic would be ? Are these players disciplined , do they do as they are told ( Gareth told them to pass backwards- allegedly ) . Would they respect a lady manager ?
I then concluded (rightly or wrongly) that it could be too much of an experiment and performances could fizzle out completely.. but I would argue it wouldn’t be the manager’s fault, it would be the players and establishment that would be root cause.

If she’s anything like the female pundits it’s a risk.
But anyones a risk really.
Imo it should be a man how’s she going to give someone the hairdryer when she can’t enter the changing room until they’re all showered and dressed.
It’s impractical I would say.

 

[GB72]

I think that a manager from the womens game should get a start at one of the younger international age groups and work their way up in the system. They then have the chance to learn and adapt as necessary but would have a track record to show the players if they reached the main team.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But you could actually carry over this principle to who ever they select as the manager going forward.. but I do feel the importance of the international tournaments should be made clear .. the Ben White situation cannot occur again, and the premiership should have its schedule reduced.

On another note I saw a proposed Man Utd line up and of the playing 11 there was only 2 English players .. pretty sure that’s common in the top teams, but I would argue that’s not enough.

Whoever they would pick, Potter, Howe etc have all managed mens teams at top level. How many levels of the pyramid is that above the ladies level? I don't want to get too involved in that but they are very different levels and jumping those without anything inbetween would be crackers.

Sadly, quite a number of teams have precious few English players playing, it's long been a problem. I think Everton played a game last year with something like 9 British players in the starting 11. Not all English but even then the majority. Not top at the moment though, sadly........That genie has left the bottle though, I can't see that changing.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Get Cherie lunghi

 

[Neilds]

But you could actually carry over this principle to who ever they select as the manager going forward.. but I do feel the importance of the international tournaments should be made clear .. the Ben White situation cannot occur again, and the premiership should have its schedule reduced.

On another note I saw a proposed Man Utd line up and of the playing 11 there was only 2 English players .. pretty sure that’s common in the top teams, but I would argue that’s not enough.

Surely this should read UEFA? The amount of European games and competitions is ridiculous and just a money making exercise (for clubs and UEFA)

 

[harpo_72]

I think that a manager from the womens game should get a start at one of the younger international age groups and work their way up in the system. They then have the chance to learn and adapt as necessary but would have a track record to show the players if they reached the main team.

Also get the players on board with how it works

 

[harpo_72]

Surely this should read UEFA? The amount of European games and competitions is ridiculous and just a money making exercise (for clubs and UEFA)

Both to be honest .. I think major sports is afflicted by this. Wife said olympics was starting soon .. my instant response was “that’s nice dear” .. I don’t care about people who dedicate their lives to have this adulation.. I suppose I am a cynical old man who just has a very harsh perspective.

 

[GB72]

Also get the players on board with how it works

Exactly, if she moves up through the under 18s and under 21s then there will be a proven track record of managing mens teams and that should help with the players.

 

[Swango1980]

But you could actually carry over this principle to who ever they select as the manager going forward.. but I do feel the importance of the international tournaments should be made clear .. the Ben White situation cannot occur again, and the premiership should have its schedule reduced.

On another note I saw a proposed Man Utd line up and of the playing 11 there was only 2 English players .. pretty sure that’s common in the top teams, but I would argue that’s not enough.

I'd be pretty confident in saying all the players within the England squad know exactly how important playing for their country is. Just like the Spanish players, French players, Dutch players, etc probably all feel the importance of representing their country. However, it is still true that only one team can win each tournament.

Watching England this summer, I didn't feel the players lacked effort or desire. But, whether it be a dip in form, not being fully fit or not being coached to a high enough standard (or more likely a combination of all), England failed to impress, at least from an attacking standpoint.

I still don't know fully the extent of the Ben White situation, whether that was poorly managed or just an individual player throwing his toys out of the pram. But, you can always have individuals that don't follow the group, regardless of the manager, especially as there are only limited places available in each team. If any wingers decided to spit their dummy out when not getting in team, there would be a mass exodus. So, it would be good for the new manager to find out more about Ben White and whether he can be an option in future. But, if there is an attitude issue, then better just to leave it I reckon.

"The Premier league should have its schedule reduced". That is a very simple statement to type. Good luck implementing that in practice. Besides, so many football fans still see supporting their club as more important. Just remember all the moans in here when the PL stops for a weekend for international week. Personally, I can't wait for the Premier league to start up again, and I'm not sure many fans genuinely wish there to be less games.

 

[Beezerk]

Both to be honest .. I think major sports is afflicted by this. Wife said olympics was starting soon .. my instant response was “that’s nice dear” .. I don’t care about people who dedicate their lives to have this adulation.. I suppose I am a cynical old man who just has a very harsh perspective.

Wow
Sports person dedicates their life to being one of the best in their field, some get adulation but most don’t, and you hate them for that
Cynical is probably about right

 

[harpo_72]

Wow
Sports person dedicates their life to being one of the best in their field, some get adulation but most don’t, and you hate them for that
Cynical is probably about right

Not hate them .. just couldn’t give a monkey’s there is a significant difference.

 

[RichA]

Exactly, if she moves up through the under 18s and under 21s then there will be a proven track record of managing mens teams and that should help with the players.

We're assuming that female managers actually want to manage male teams and foreign managers actually want to manage England.

Obviously not football, but I work in what was traditionally a male dominated environment but which has pushed equal opportunities for a couple of decades.
My lists of best and worst managers in nearly 30 years are both a mixture of male and female.
Top of the best list by far is female and current, but there are still people who grumble about tokenism.

Southgate lasted about 8 years in a job that he got initially by virtue of being English, male and available.
Maybe English football needs to be a bit less strict on those criteria for the next appointment.

 

[Swango1980]

Because I can't be bothered starting work yet, thought I'd have a look to compare how well English coaches seem to be valued across Europe in the top leagues / how other nations value their own coaches. If I assume the 5 top leagues are in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France:

English Managers in Premier League = 4/20
Spanish Managers in La Liga = 15/20
Italian Managers in Serie A = 17/20
German Managers in Bundesliga = 9/18
French Managers in Ligue 1 = 10/17

Across all of Europe's top leagues 95 clubs (probably 96 clubs, assuming one in France is managerless):

Spanish: 23
Italian: 20
German: 11
French: 10
England: 5
Denmark: 4
Austria, Portugal: 3
USA, Netherlands, Scotland:2
Wales, Australia, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Switzerland, Turkey, Belgium, Armenia, Slovenia: 1

Are English managers less fancied because they are generally a poorer quality. Are the less fancied simply because England have not won anything in a long time, so the perception is English coaches are poor (and had England started winning things, suddenly the rest of Europe would love an English coach). However, if the FA are looking for a new manager, if they go for English then obviously their options are much more limited from managers who manage at the higher end European clubs. So, they either go for one of those limited options, or look for a manager who has worked at a lower club or age level. But can also see why it is tempting for the FA to go foreign, as it very much broadens their search for quality managers

 

[PaulMdj]

Because I can't be bothered starting work yet, thought I'd have a look to compare how well English coaches seem to be valued across Europe in the top leagues / how other nations value their own coaches. If I assume the 5 top leagues are in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France:

English Managers in Premier League = 4/20
Spanish Managers in La Liga = 15/20
Italian Managers in Serie A = 17/20
German Managers in Bundesliga = 9/18
French Managers in Ligue 1 = 10/17

Across all of Europe's top leagues 95 clubs (probably 96 clubs, assuming one in France is managerless):

Spanish: 23
Italian: 20
German: 11
French: 10
England: 5
Denmark: 4
Austria, Portugal: 3
USA, Netherlands, Scotland:2
Wales, Australia, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Switzerland, Turkey, Belgium, Armenia, Slovenia: 1

Are English managers less fancied because they are generally a poorer quality. Are the less fancied simply because England have not won anything in a long time, so the perception is English coaches are poor (and had England started winning things, suddenly the rest of Europe would love an English coach). However, if the FA are looking for a new manager, if they go for English then obviously their options are much more limited from managers who manage at the higher end European clubs. So, they either go for one of those limited options, or look for a manager who has worked at a lower club or age level. But can also see why it is tempting for the FA to go foreign, as it very much broadens their search for quality managers

Surely the high number of foreign managers in the PL is helped by the quality of the players and more importantly, the wages.

 

[PaulMdj]

Not hate them .. just couldn’t give a monkey’s there is a significant difference.

Seems a strange attitude for someone who was involved in sport at a high level.