Orikoru
Tour Winner
I think the likes of Pep and Klopp are far too savvy anyway - they know that England manager is just about the worst job in football. 'Thankless task' doesn't begin to cover it.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Swango1980
Well-known member
Is it a thankless job?
First tournament or two for Southgate, even though he wouldn't have been many people's 1st choice, I think most people were pretty supportive of him. I thought the defeat to Italy at Wembley were the first signs of people becoming majorly critical, and certainly staying after Qatar was very much a tournament too far for many people. It feels like, at this Euros, the atmosphere from many of the fans has finally become more "toxic" towards Southgate.
If Pep or Klopp, or another fancied manager, came to be England manager, I'm pretty sure the majority of England fans would be very "thankful" and it would generate a lot of excitement again. I suspect that, even if England don't win the next tournament, if there are signs of the team playing some good football and playing well against other big nations, then the support for the new manager would continue. Sure, 8 years in, if England have still not won anything and are playing bland football, then it might become toxic. But a manager like Pep or Klopp would leave long before that anyway. Perhaps after 4 years they'd walk away if things were not going as they hoped.
larmen
Head Pro
German media says that Loew is on Englands list.
Personally I think a big nation like England needs an English manager.
Personally I think a big nation like England needs an English manager.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I read that. Proven winner on the international stage though
Beezerk
Money List Winner
PaulMdj
Well-known member
That doesn’t answer your post though! Southgate came in to a system, the FA changed how it worked years ago.
Now you’re suggesting changing it again.
larmen
Head Pro
Just did some research (wikipedia) and no country has ever won a world cup with a foreign manager. You might as well have kept Southgate.
Surely there must be an English manager able to inspire the top class players. He doesn't have to teach them to pass a ball or convert a header, he just needs to be tactically astute and be able to rally the team.
Maybe an ex player like Shearer, Rooney, Beckham, basically pick from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_national_football_team_captains
Or a young manager, someone who got more out of a bad/mediocore theme than people expected but didn't get a chance to manage a great team yet because of the likes of Klopp, Pep, ...; Scott Parker maybe, he dresses like Southgate ;-)
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Please no. Awful as a PL with Fulham and no great shakes since. Burnley is his level and that really will be painful football passing from one side to the other and making 5 yards at most. I'd investigate Scottish ancestory if that came to pass
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
What system do the u21s play under carsley.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
The FA intoduced the following in 2012:
The FA came up with five key elements to enhance its training program: 1) Who we are: “[It's] making sure the players have a passion for playing for England. We celebrate each individual story and bring it together for the team,” says Matt Crocker the FA’s Head of Coach and Player Development. 2) How we play: Determines the specific style all teams should have, from the under-15s to the senior team. 3) The future England player: Looking for players whose characteristics fit the team’s style. 4) How we coach: Sets consistent coaching methods, and a unified philosophy. 5) How we support: "Aligned and consistent support services: sport science, medical analysis, psychology development,”
Obviously, each individual coach will have his own idiosyncracy, but the philosophy stays the same.
And using your point of Southgate being “succesful” you could add Carsley winning the U21 Euros, it’s seeing some positive shoots.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I think it is a given that the ideal manager of England should be English. For those that have pride in their nation, that would also apply to having pride of having a top class English manager if possible.
And, of course, you'd like to think of a nation like England having several top class English managers, that would be capable of leading England to one of the most feared teams on earth.
But, the question is, do England have top class managers? Do England have a range of English managers to choose from, equivalent to the range of Spanish managers Spain have to choose from, Dutch managers the Netherlands have to choose from, etc? It is difficult to say they do, especially when only 4 managers in the Premier league next season are English, those being Dyche, Howe, Mckenna and O'Neil. And I'm not sure there are many English managers managing top clubs around the world?
And, of course, you'd like to think of a nation like England having several top class English managers, that would be capable of leading England to one of the most feared teams on earth.
But, the question is, do England have top class managers? Do England have a range of English managers to choose from, equivalent to the range of Spanish managers Spain have to choose from, Dutch managers the Netherlands have to choose from, etc? It is difficult to say they do, especially when only 4 managers in the Premier league next season are English, those being Dyche, Howe, Mckenna and O'Neil. And I'm not sure there are many English managers managing top clubs around the world?
GB72
Money List Winner
Personally I feel that every national team should have a manager from that nation. If it is a competition between nations then it should be for all positions within the team including managers and coaches. It also helps to encourage the development of home grown managers.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I tend to agree. Just like players, I think FIFA should put the same qualifying conditions on managers and coaching staff.
However, whilst that condition is not there, right or wrong, it gives nations the chance to broaden their search for a manager. And, hypothetically, if Pep turned round and said "I've lived in England for quite some time now, and would love to manage the English national team, and try and give back to the nation that I have grown to love", would there be a significant number of English fans who would say "no, he isn't English, I'd rather have Steve Bruce"? Unless there was a stand out English manager prepared to take the job, I think Pep would be welcomed with open arms by most. And if there are not great English managers out there, that is something the FA need to look at and ask why
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
I wouldn't be surprised if he ends back up in International management, at a country that struggles to qualify regularly. His record may be alluring to them.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I've always wondered why that isn't the rule as well. Surely as it's nation v nation then all your staff should be from your nation, not just the players?
We've gone down the foreign manager route twice and it hasn't worked particularly well either time. If Pochettino was interested I'd be open to it, but I can't see why any foreign manager would really want the England job. It's a poison chalice. And much more likely to throw in the towel you would think. Say what you like about Gareth but there was never any doubt about his heart being in it.
Curious though, all those saying they want an English manager - does Carsley count? 40 caps for Ireland so in football terms, he's Irish not English.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Which is why the under 21s is where to start. This is the system we play and you work with it. Get players used to playing in that.
For their clubs they get week in week out coaching. International management is entirely different but if the under 17 19 20 21s all work with a similar system
If you don't do a good enough job for the under 21s you don't progress up.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Another rice though, born in England .. sure he made his choice to play for Ireland for whatever reason but prob has a British passport
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
I read that the Lionesses Manager was in the mix.
My initial reaction was ..nah.. after the Spanish debacle and Chelsea thing I have felt leave the women’s game alone and keep them out of the men’s game.
But then I wondered what the dynamic would be ? Are these players disciplined , do they do as they are told ( Gareth told them to pass backwards- allegedly
) . Would they respect a lady manager ?
I then concluded (rightly or wrongly) that it could be too much of an experiment and performances could fizzle out completely.. but I would argue it wouldn’t be the manager’s fault, it would be the players and establishment that would be root cause.
My initial reaction was ..nah.. after the Spanish debacle and Chelsea thing I have felt leave the women’s game alone and keep them out of the men’s game.
But then I wondered what the dynamic would be ? Are these players disciplined , do they do as they are told ( Gareth told them to pass backwards- allegedly
) . Would they respect a lady manager ? I then concluded (rightly or wrongly) that it could be too much of an experiment and performances could fizzle out completely.. but I would argue it wouldn’t be the manager’s fault, it would be the players and establishment that would be root cause.
