The Footie Thread

[Hobbit]

Every game until the final Rice seemed to be 3-5yds away from Stones, he get the ball off Stones and pass it sideways/backwards to a defender.

Stones is more than capable of doing that himself, in the final Stones had the ball in our half and ran forward carrying it to the edge of the Spanish box, not only catching the spaniards out, but his own players as well. Yet he does this for City quite often.

Incidents like that, Pickford kicking etc were some of the things that confused me, was it down to rigid instructions from Southgate or was it they were unsure of each other.

Foden made loads of runs between the lines looking for a ball round the corner that never came, then you could see him getting frustrated.

For a team that the majority had played together quite a few times, they looked like strangers.

I thought Rice had a decent first half in the first game then almost disappeared. He’s really stepped up since going to Arsenal but was hugely disappointing during the tournament. The odd flash of very good play doesn’t balance the other 85mins of slow, ponderous play. Was he being asked to play too deep?

Pickford’s kicking shocked me, then frustrated me no end. Time and again he had players open but needed an extra touch, or 5mins to make up his mind. Added to which, he wasn’t accurate with it. Best shot stopper in the tournament but his distribution was awful. I’d drop him for that alone. International football has long since moved on from thump it long. It’s build from the back.

Foden’s game improved from a very shaky start in the tournament, and was worth his place in the final.

I’ve not seen any real detail about the injury that Kane was carrying but it would certainly explain his poor performances. But if it was that bad, why didn’t the medical team make Southgate fully aware, and why wasn’t his lack of impact in the games recognised as down to his injury and him being hooked off sooner?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Very confident

As confident as you were that Coutinho wouldn’t be sold ?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Eddie Howe now bookies fav for England job.

 

[PaulMdj]

I thought Rice had a decent first half in the first game then almost disappeared. He’s really stepped up since going to Arsenal but was hugely disappointing during the tournament. The odd flash of very good play doesn’t balance the other 85mins of slow, ponderous play. Was he being asked to play too deep?

Pickford’s kicking shocked me, then frustrated me no end. Time and again he had players open but needed an extra touch, or 5mins to make up his mind. Added to which, he wasn’t accurate with it. Best shot stopper in the tournament but his distribution was awful. I’d drop him for that alone. International football has long since moved on from thump it long. It’s build from the back.

Foden’s game improved from a very shaky start in the tournament, and was worth his place in the final.

I’ve not seen any real detail about the injury that Kane was carrying but it would certainly explain his poor performances. But if it was that bad, why didn’t the medical team make Southgate fully aware, and why wasn’t his lack of impact in the games recognised as down to his injury and him being hooked off sooner?

I know you love your stats Pickford had 77% success rate, and again it comes back to questions already asked, why in this tournament from match 1 was it kicking it longer more times than in previous tournaments. I’m baffled.

Another daft stat, during the group stages Foden passed the ball to Pickford 3 times, yet only passed to Kane once.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Eddie Howe now bookies fav for England job.

Newcastle clearly playing a long game https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c10lq33j7myo

 

[rulefan]

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest Southgate is capable of getting his team to play lovely, entertaining attacking football.

In fairness, there may not be a lot of managers that can. As fans, it is so easy for us to say just do this, just do that, just play this footballer and/or formation, and then make it sound like we have all the answers to get England playing like world beaters. Yet none of us have anywhere near the experience or qualifications as Southgate. He has played at the highest level, he has got his coaching badges and he has worked face to face with these England players. But, to play football like a Pep team might sound simple in theory, but in reality extremely difficult. It is what makes Pep a world class coach. It isn't about the simple things like formation or players, but goes much deeper than that. You've almost got to drill players to death so that everything becomes automatic, so that they all know exactly where their team mates will be without having to almost look up or think, they know the runs they will make, etc. And yet still allow a little flexibility within the grand plan, so that your world class players can do something special in the moment.

If any of us suddenly became England manager, and felt "right, here we go, attack attack attack", we could easily be 3 or 4 down at half time, because it just is not that simple. I'm sure Southgate would do a much better job of it, but still realizes that if it doesn't work out for whatever reason (poor finishing, good defending, etc), then that could leave England vulnerable and open to conceding 1 or 2 goals in quick succession. That is likely to be a disaster in tournament football, as it only needs to happen once in the knockout stages, and you are packing your bags. So, he is more pragmatic, ensures that England are difficult to break down, and is more basic in his attacking tactics (in comparison to Pep), but hoping the quality of the England players get the job done. It is obviously just frustrating when the attack struggles to create chances, and then ultimately you concede at some point in the game.

I think Southgate is a perfectly adequate coach in many respects, and infinitely better than any of us would likely be. But, he isn't at that world class level, who can confidently get a team playing good attacking football, whilst being confident they can keep the opposition attack quiet. And, in all honesty, I'm not sure there have been many English managers over the years who do fit that world class category? Maybe a handful, some of who never got a chance to manage England, or did but luck didn't go their way. But, are English coaches, generally speaking, less attacking and more defensive than other nationalities, simply because of how they have grown up and how they've been educated from a young age? Perhaps the culture is changing, especially due to the scale of the Premier League. However, it'll still take years for these potential attacking English managers to work their way through their playing careers, coaching badges, etc before they filter through into management. Maybe people like Howe are some of the early new breed, who are starting to show that style? Perhaps over the next 10-15 years, we'll see more English coaches coming through that are more likely to be classed as world class attacking coaches. Well, hopefully that is the case.

Premier League teams are not playing 'sudden death' knockouts. They are playing for a long season. Because they have a TEAM of attacking players they can afford to be a goal down.
In this Eufa KO all teams are concentrating on defence to ensure they don't concede that one goal. Possession in your own half helps that objective. Possession in their half is the ideal. But if their defence is packed, there is no space for you and therefore you are not likely to score twice.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Not a great look from Enzo Fernandez

So will it be time for a club to stand up to it

His teammates aren’t very happy

 

[simsini]

We'll soon know how good of a job Southgate really did, if and when he gets offered a top job next.

 

[GB72]

We'll soon know how good of a job Southgate really did, if and when he gets offered a top job next.

I don;t think he will get a top, top job. Come December one of the teams struggling will be attracted to his ability to bring players together and make them hard to beat and that will be his level for a while.

 

[Fade and Die]

I don;t think he will get a top, top job. Come December one of the teams struggling will be attracted to his ability to bring players together and make them hard to beat and that will be his level for a while.

So United then?

 

[Hobbit]

So United then?

No, it’ll be a proper Prem club

 

[sunshine]

I forgot about the formation change for the final, went away from the one that gave us possibly our best portion of football back to the one that gave us turgid tripe. Could we have played better with 3-4-2-1 it’s impossible to say but one thing is for sure 4-2-3-1 hadn’t worked previously and certainly didn’t work in the final.
It’s funny, a Scottish lad just asked me if I’m gutted about the result on Sunday, I said I was more gutted that we never really turned up in the final.

Sorry but that's so tactically naive.

Spain played 4-2-3-1, or 4-3-3 really as both wingers play high up. England's wing backs needed to handle Spain's wingers, so that would have left 3 centre halves to mark Morata and a man short in midfield. And having an extra centre half would have been even more defensive.

Going up against that Spain central midfield a man down would have been suicide. As it was Fabian and Olmo outclassed Rice and Mainoo. Southgate made the smart move to match up the formation, actually England played more of a 4-4-2, with Foden just off Kane and Bellingham on the left.

 

[Slime]

I don;t think he will get a top, top job. Come December one of the teams struggling will be attracted to his ability to bring players together and make them hard to beat and that will be his level for a while.

So United then?

Probably, if Howe does take the England job.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Looks like Man Utd have got Leny Yoro.
Happy with that Utd fans?

 

[Slime]

Looks like Man Utd have got Leny Yoro.
Happy with that Utd fans?

 

[4LEX]

I break the Southgate era down into two parts.

The first part he took over a struggling team and got rid of the toxic culture around it and created a team that did well and played some good football. The World Cup in Russia we did really well and while I think he cost us against Croatia, I'm not sure we were good enough to beat France if we had reached the final, so that for me was around par for the tournament. The Euro's in 2021 we had a better side and should've won the final. Italy were a poor team and their record since has proven that. They just were just experienced and got lucky with the penalties. They missed 2 of their own, it was our shocking ones that gifted them the trophy. The real issue was not making our quality in the first eleven and on the bench count during the game. Southgate cost us that tournament and I'll never change my mind on it.

His faults were evident then (sticking with favourites, indecisive with subs etc) and he should've been moved on with a thank you. Instead we then enter the second era which hasn't been great. The team has again improved but we were poor in Qatar, we just had a very easy group and first knock out game. Against France we played OK but it wasn't good enough given the quality we had available. This tournament we've taken a nosedive and looked really poor throughout. With more quality to pick from, we've gone backwards and it's clear he's run out of ideas. We got lucky on many levels and almost took it to extra time in the final but that stuff catches up with you. Wrong set up, selections, bad subs (bar Holland) and generally a terrible level of performance.

Spain didn't have a great defence or keeper, they won it by playing agressive football with pace out wide. Morata was woeful goling forward and still went home with a trophy! Their coach realised he helped to make space and let their better players shine, instead we got a one paced Kane struggling to move and making our best players worse. We had the same quality out wide as Spain and we just played with the handbrake on and no width or balance.

The only thing I'll miss about Southgate is his luck, nothing else. If he had the same draws that Sven did with our last decent team he would've gone the same way. Likewise if Sven had easy draws and avoided Brazil and Portugal we would've made a couple of finals with ease.

As for the future I just hope The FA take their time and get the right manager in place for the World Cup and then Euro 2028 in the UK. My concern is they'll put a caretaker in place, who will do well and then they'll bottle it and give them the job. We've got a world class squad, we need a world class manager. Klopp or Pep for me, even if we have to wait a year.

 

[Reemul]

I thought Rice had a decent first half in the first game then almost disappeared. He’s really stepped up since going to Arsenal but was hugely disappointing during the tournament. The odd flash of very good play doesn’t balance the other 85mins of slow, ponderous play. Was he being asked to play too deep?

Pickford’s kicking shocked me, then frustrated me no end. Time and again he had players open but needed an extra touch, or 5mins to make up his mind. Added to which, he wasn’t accurate with it. Best shot stopper in the tournament but his distribution was awful. I’d drop him for that alone. International football has long since moved on from thump it long. It’s build from the back.

Foden’s game improved from a very shaky start in the tournament, and was worth his place in the final.

I’ve not seen any real detail about the injury that Kane was carrying but it would certainly explain his poor performances. But if it was that bad, why didn’t the medical team make Southgate fully aware, and why wasn’t his lack of impact in the games recognised as down to his injury and him being hooked off sooner?

Feels like an irrational dislike of Pickford. The reality is if Southgate did not want him to kick it he would have stopped it, you continue blaming Pickford for a tactic he may have been made to use. You have absolutely no idea and talk like you were there.

There were lots of things that were annoying that lots of players did, i am, not going to blame them though without understanding who is getting them to do it and why with the odds being it's the manager and coaching team and now he is gone I am sure we may find out a little more.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Feels like an irrational dislike of Pickford. The reality is if Southgate did not want him to kick it he would have stopped it, you continue blaming Pickford for a tactic he may have been made to use. You have absolutely no idea and talk like you were there.

There were lots of things that were annoying that lots of players did, i am, not going to blame them though without understanding who is getting them to do it and why with the odds being it's the manager and coaching team and now he is gone I am sure we may find out a little more.

Pickford was one of the few players that didn’t make me angry during the tournament.

 

[Tashyboy]

We have the players to do it though, Stones for example is one of the best ball-playing centre backs in the world. At Brighton it was a little more hit-and-miss. Guehi is comfortable in possession also. As long as Maguire isn't back in the England side we'd be fine.

This, although I think the initial question is only half correct. England have been rammel playing out from the back. But have also been rammel in actually playing a press against the opposition. A new manager will have to focus on both aspects of the game.

 

[Tashyboy]

I break the Southgate era down into two parts.

The first part he took over a struggling team and got rid of the toxic culture around it and created a team that did well and played some good football. The World Cup in Russia we did really well and while I think he cost us against Croatia, I'm not sure we were good enough to beat France if we had reached the final, so that for me was around par for the tournament. The Euro's in 2021 we had a better side and should've won the final. Italy were a poor team and their record since has proven that. They just were just experienced and got lucky with the penalties. They missed 2 of their own, it was our shocking ones that gifted them the trophy. The real issue was not making our quality in the first eleven and on the bench count during the game. Southgate cost us that tournament and I'll never change my mind on it.

His faults were evident then (sticking with favourites, indecisive with subs etc) and he should've been moved on with a thank you. Instead we then enter the second era which hasn't been great. The team has again improved but we were poor in Qatar, we just had a very easy group and first knock out game. Against France we played OK but it wasn't good enough given the quality we had available. This tournament we've taken a nosedive and looked really poor throughout. With more quality to pick from, we've gone backwards and it's clear he's run out of ideas. We got lucky on many levels and almost took it to extra time in the final but that stuff catches up with you. Wrong set up, selections, bad subs (bar Holland) and generally a terrible level of performance.

Spain didn't have a great defence or keeper, they won it by playing agressive football with pace out wide. Morata was woeful goling forward and still went home with a trophy! Their coach realised he helped to make space and let their better players shine, instead we got a one paced Kane struggling to move and making our best players worse. We had the same quality out wide as Spain and we just played with the handbrake on and no width or balance.

The only thing I'll miss about Southgate is his luck, nothing else. If he had the same draws that Sven did with our last decent team he would've gone the same way. Likewise if Sven had easy draws and avoided Brazil and Portugal we would've made a couple of finals with ease.

As for the future I just hope The FA take their time and get the right manager in place for the World Cup and then Euro 2028 in the UK. My concern is they'll put a caretaker in place, who will do well and then they'll bottle it and give them the job. We've got a world class squad, we need a world class manager. Klopp or Pep for me, even if we have to wait a year.

All the noises I hear from City at the moment are Pep will extend by another year giving him Two seasons at City. If that is the case I am torn. He is eventually going to leave City. I would sooner him have a Year any City and then 4/5 in the England job coz quite frankly I got to a stage where watching England has been rammel.