HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Will they improve his defending and passing
Maybe the FA had already tapped Klopp up, hence his resignation from L’pool?
Will they improve his defending and passing
Trent will even misplace his bus pass in later years
Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
A lot has been said on here about Pickford launching it long and people not liking it. Would those same people be happy with Potter playing his build from the back and then inviting the press before playing through it like he did when at Brighton and what dezerbi took on and continued doing at Brighton.
Great to watch when in full flow but steeped in fear should it break down at the press.
Great to watch when in full flow but steeped in fear should it break down at the press.
crdb
Member
It's a style of play that I love when it works but stresses me out to watch, especially my team... There aren't many teams playing the long ball nowadays & some where the cb to take goal kicks, not a fan of that.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
We have the players to do it though, Stones for example is one of the best ball-playing centre backs in the world. At Brighton it was a little more hit-and-miss. Guehi is comfortable in possession also. As long as Maguire isn't back in the England side we'd be fine.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Do Real Madrid even worry about defending? I reckon they'll just say "look guys, we have Bellingham, Junior, Mbappe, etc, we'll let the opposition worry about defence"Will they improve his defending and passing
To be fair, of all the criticism TAA gets, it isn't really about his passing / crossing or shooting. Those are his strengths.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
We have the players to do it though, Stones for example is one of the best ball-playing centre backs in the world. At Brighton it was a little more hit-and-miss. Guehi is comfortable in possession also. As long as Maguire isn't back in the England side we'd be fine.
We do have the players but we didn’t have the right setup to do it. Watching most of the other teams they move around the pitch like a unit, we seemed too disjointed with huge gaps between defence/midfield/attack. Almost like old school teams would set up.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Bring back Big Sam and go back to four four effing two.
Trent - Stones - Guehi - Shaw
Gordon - Bellingham - Rice - Saka
Kane - Toney
Get it in the mixer!
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
I’m done with the national team if that happens.
Can’t watch him gurning & fist pumping
Just playing Devil’s Advocate for a second, we don’t know if Southgate wanted them to move as a unit but the players weren’t good enough. Were players out of form, injured(Kane) or playing out of position? Was the slow, ponderous build up Southgate’s style/system or were the players not good enough? I know less about the squad as a whole than I thought I did before the tournament.
All that said, not for the first time recently, a top 4/second final. Are we throwing out the baby with the bath water?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
When we played the 3-4-2-1 system in the quarter and semi-final, I felt we looked a lot better and more fluid. In the final he went back to 4-2-3-1, because he was worried about Spain's wingers I think and wanted to bring our full backs back again. Underdog mentality as usual, sacrificing fluidity in attack for a backs-to-the-wall defensive approach.
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Beezerk
Money List Winner
I forgot about the formation change for the final, went away from the one that gave us possibly our best portion of football back to the one that gave us turgid tripe. Could we have played better with 3-4-2-1 it’s impossible to say but one thing is for sure 4-2-3-1 hadn’t worked previously and certainly didn’t work in the final.
It’s funny, a Scottish lad just asked me if I’m gutted about the result on Sunday, I said I was more gutted that we never really turned up in the final.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Every game until the final Rice seemed to be 3-5yds away from Stones, he get the ball off Stones and pass it sideways/backwards to a defender.
Stones is more than capable of doing that himself, in the final Stones had the ball in our half and ran forward carrying it to the edge of the Spanish box, not only catching the spaniards out, but his own players as well. Yet he does this for City quite often.
Incidents like that, Pickford kicking etc were some of the things that confused me, was it down to rigid instructions from Southgate or was it they were unsure of each other.
Foden made loads of runs between the lines looking for a ball round the corner that never came, then you could see him getting frustrated.
For a team that the majority had played together quite a few times, they looked like strangers.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
The only difference to the earlier version of the 4-2-3-1 was that he had Bellingham stuck out on the left instead of Foden this time. So really sacrificed getting any useful contribution from him. Once he brought Palmer on for Mainoo, Bellingham dropped back into the centre, and lo and behold he got an assist for Palmer 3 minutes later.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I don't think there is any evidence to suggest Southgate is capable of getting his team to play lovely, entertaining attacking football.
In fairness, there may not be a lot of managers that can. As fans, it is so easy for us to say just do this, just do that, just play this footballer and/or formation, and then make it sound like we have all the answers to get England playing like world beaters. Yet none of us have anywhere near the experience or qualifications as Southgate. He has played at the highest level, he has got his coaching badges and he has worked face to face with these England players. But, to play football like a Pep team might sound simple in theory, but in reality extremely difficult. It is what makes Pep a world class coach. It isn't about the simple things like formation or players, but goes much deeper than that. You've almost got to drill players to death so that everything becomes automatic, so that they all know exactly where their team mates will be without having to almost look up or think, they know the runs they will make, etc. And yet still allow a little flexibility within the grand plan, so that your world class players can do something special in the moment.
If any of us suddenly became England manager, and felt "right, here we go, attack attack attack", we could easily be 3 or 4 down at half time, because it just is not that simple. I'm sure Southgate would do a much better job of it, but still realizes that if it doesn't work out for whatever reason (poor finishing, good defending, etc), then that could leave England vulnerable and open to conceding 1 or 2 goals in quick succession. That is likely to be a disaster in tournament football, as it only needs to happen once in the knockout stages, and you are packing your bags. So, he is more pragmatic, ensures that England are difficult to break down, and is more basic in his attacking tactics (in comparison to Pep), but hoping the quality of the England players get the job done. It is obviously just frustrating when the attack struggles to create chances, and then ultimately you concede at some point in the game.
I think Southgate is a perfectly adequate coach in many respects, and infinitely better than any of us would likely be. But, he isn't at that world class level, who can confidently get a team playing good attacking football, whilst being confident they can keep the opposition attack quiet. And, in all honesty, I'm not sure there have been many English managers over the years who do fit that world class category? Maybe a handful, some of who never got a chance to manage England, or did but luck didn't go their way. But, are English coaches, generally speaking, less attacking and more defensive than other nationalities, simply because of how they have grown up and how they've been educated from a young age? Perhaps the culture is changing, especially due to the scale of the Premier League. However, it'll still take years for these potential attacking English managers to work their way through their playing careers, coaching badges, etc before they filter through into management. Maybe people like Howe are some of the early new breed, who are starting to show that style? Perhaps over the next 10-15 years, we'll see more English coaches coming through that are more likely to be classed as world class attacking coaches. Well, hopefully that is the case.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Klopp won’t be going near football management for at least a year and won’t go near the England job
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Swango1980
Well-known member
Are you as confident in that statement as you were when you said Bellingham would be going to Liverpool?
Who knows, even if Klopp felt he needed a very long break from management, he might start feeling the bug again and want to come back sooner than he even thought was likely.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Very confident
