The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

Why do some people thing that England should be winning every trophy there is? We haven’t won anything for nearly 60 years, English clubs don’t seem to favour English players and we are short of world class player (see Ballon D’Or nominees) so why do people always think that this will be time it comes home?
We always have low expectations for things like Wimbledon so maybe we should accept that a semi final every now and again is the right level for the men’s national football team

I'm not sure many of us expect England to win anything. We would quite like to be entertained when watching them though. At the moment, we even have the players who could entertain us, whilst also winning games. Rare you get that combination, it would be nice to make use of it.

 

[PJ87]

I'm not sure many of us expect England to win anything. We would quite like to be entertained when watching them though. At the moment, we even have the players who could entertain us, whilst also winning games. Rare you get that combination, it would be nice to make use of it.

Considering England games are a sideshow to real football (IE club football) I'd take boring football all day long to get within a sniff of winning

Take last week their was genuine hope around the country that we could win it, in my life time alone (37) pre Southgate we made just 2 semis (1990 and 1996) we lost them both. We also failed to even qualify twice !

Over the past 8 years we have got to 3 semis , winning 2 of them. An outside hope twice got to wow only 1 game between us and a major trophy

I find that feeling entertaining, more so than a few fancy passes that result in an earlier knock out

 

[Swango1980]

Considering England games are a sideshow to real football (IE club football) I'd take boring football all day long to get within a sniff of winning

Take last week their was genuine hope around the country that we could win it, in my life time alone (37) pre Southgate we made just 2 semis (1990 and 1996) we lost them both. We also failed to even qualify twice !

Over the past 8 years we have got to 3 semis , winning 2 of them. An outside hope twice got to wow only 1 game between us and a major trophy

I find that feeling entertaining, more so than a few fancy passes that result in an earlier knock out

Why do people say this, as if there are only 2 choices? Either play boring football and get to finals, or entertaining football and get knocked out earlier.

What about another couple of choices. Boring football and win nothing, or entertaining football and giving yourself a better chance of winning something?

 

[PJ87]

Why do people say this, as if there are only 2 choices? Either play boring football and get to finals, or entertaining football and get knocked out earlier.

What about another couple of choices. Boring football and win nothing, or entertaining football and giving yourself a better chance of winning something?

History speaks for itself. When was the last time we played entertaining and got anywhere?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Considering England games are a sideshow to real football (IE club football) I'd take boring football all day long to get within a sniff of winning

Take last week their was genuine hope around the country that we could win it, in my life time alone (37) pre Southgate we made just 2 semis (1990 and 1996) we lost them both. We also failed to even qualify twice !

Over the past 8 years we have got to 3 semis , winning 2 of them. An outside hope twice got to wow only 1 game between us and a major trophy

I find that feeling entertaining, more so than a few fancy passes that result in an earlier knock out

Losing to Germany in Italia 90 and again in Euro 96, both of those still hurt. I hear the opening bars of Nessun Dorma and my heart sinks a little. Even now, I still expect Gazza to knock in the cross in the 96 game, I swear he pulled his leg back, he HAD to reach it .

Losing to Croatia, Italy, Spain in the recent tournaments, meh. Forgettable, I moved on within minutes. Spain, seconds.

It can't just be pure results, there has to be something more to it.

 

[PJ87]

Losing to Germany in Italia 90 and again in Euro 96, both of those still hurt. I hear the opening bars of Nessun Dorma and my heart sinks a little. Even now, I still expect Gazza to knock in the cross in the 96 game, I swear he pulled his leg back, he HAD to reach it .

Losing to Croatia, Italy, Spain in the recent tournaments, meh. Forgettable, I moved on within minutes. Spain, seconds.

It can't just be pure results, there has to be something more to it.

Now people I know who lived through Italia 90 always say the football was dire until the Germany game. The press wanted Robson hung drawn and quartered and only after the Germany game did he become "sir Bobby" for a bit of fancy football.

The semi final this time round was very entertaining, last min winner against the Dutch. Celebrated like a loon when that went in. Last min winners (for your team) are the best thing In football no?

Then the final that feeling when Palmer scored. Pure entertainment.. hope we would go on ..

Even right at the end when rice almost scored we were right there

That's 2 euro finals on the bounce , only 4 teams have ever done it .. we are one of them. It's an amazing achievement, it's blooming hard. The fact that both times we were in the game until the final minute aswell. We are so past the days of not even getting to a quarter final.

 

[Swango1980]

History speaks for itself. When was the last time we played entertaining and got anywhere?

And when had playing boring football got you anywhere (I never watched 66, was it boring then?)?

It is difficult to say you can thank boring football for getting you to the last final, unless the plan was to rely on a Bellingham overhead kick a minute from the final whistle. It is difficult to say boring football had worked for England at all, given they have rarely beaten a top side by doing so.

Absolute papering over the cracks, only thumbs up for no banana skins, despite nearly happening against Slovakia.

My best memories of England are Euro 96. Or when the likes of Owen or Rooney burst onto the scene.

Worst memories of England are losses to likes of Iceland. Or even any of Southgates tournaments. I won't remember great times under Southgate. I'll remember turgid performances against average sides, and failures against the likes of Italy, or the fact England were not in the same league as the likes of Spain. Basically hoping England win in a one off game once they face a good side, rather than buzzing because you know you can humble your opponent.

Never a guarantee winning, even with best players, coach and philosophy. But, football is an entertainment sport. So, if you have confidence you are a top side, then go for it. I think you should only ever take the boring approach if you know you are inferior, and it is your best bet.

 

[PJ87]

And when had playing boring football got you anywhere (I never watched 66, was it boring then?)?

It is difficult to say you can thank boring football for getting you to the last final, unless the plan was to rely on a Bellingham overhead kick a minute from the final whistle. It is difficult to say boring football had worked for England at all, given they have rarely beaten a top side by doing so.

Absolute papering over the cracks, only thumbs up for no banana skins, despite nearly happening against Slovakia.

My best memories of England are Euro 96. Or when the likes of Owen or Rooney burst onto the scene.

Worst memories of England are losses to likes of Iceland. Or even any of Southgates tournaments. I won't remember great times under Southgate. I'll remember turgid performances against average sides, and failures against the likes of Italy, or the fact England were not in the same league as the likes of Spain. Basically hoping England win in a one off game once they face a good side, rather than buzzing because you know you can humble your opponent.

Never a guarantee winning, even with best players, coach and philosophy. But, football is an entertainment sport. So, if you have confidence you are a top side, then go for it. I think you should only ever take the boring approach if you know you are inferior, and it is your best bet.

So you won't remember winning a semi final in the last minute? Or Palmer's equalising goal against the Spanish which was cracking?

People moan about negativity but we are a negative nation and comments like this just prove that.

 

[PaulMdj]

That’s the point though, if we are still sticking to that 5 point plan it is not going to work. I would suggest that if I am saying I would have Pep as a future manager I am moving on. Finding it odd that others think the only manager we should look at has to have English credentials. Seeing as most players in the England squad have foreign managers they seem to cope ok.

The 5 point plan is there regardless of managers’s nationality.

Best man for the job for me.

Before 2012 we had no connection between age groups and what was being coached. The FA had to do something.

Never had time for Southgate, should never of been manager, but remember, Allardyce had 1 game then embarrassed himself and the FA, Southgate was put in as caretaker for 3 matches and the clowns gave him the job. Safe option, squeeky clean.

Now put our personal feelings aside and see it from their point of view what he accomplished, yes we could argue the negatives, but with him in charge the England team have progressed in major competitions and there has been no major issues, a dream for the suits in the FA, now I just hope they bring in someone, anyone, who can take us to the next level and get these players playing decent football.

 

[PaulMdj]

Considering England games are a sideshow to real football (IE club football) I'd take boring football all day long to get within a sniff of winning

Take last week their was genuine hope around the country that we could win it, in my life time alone (37) pre Southgate we made just 2 semis (1990 and 1996) we lost them both. We also failed to even qualify twice !

Over the past 8 years we have got to 3 semis , winning 2 of them. An outside hope twice got to wow only 1 game between us and a major trophy

I find that feeling entertaining, more so than a few fancy passes that result in an earlier knock out

I’d disagree, there was genuine hope when we played Italy at wembley, last week we were hoping the players would finally turn up or fluke a win, I’m still bewildered how we managed to reach the final.

 

[Swango1980]

So you won't remember winning a semi final in the last minute? Or Palmer's equalising goal against the Spanish which was cracking?

People moan about negativity but we are a negative nation and comments like this just prove that.

Probably not. I do now, but in 10 years time, no. I'll probably remember Bellingham's overhead kick, but that will also remind me how he got an awful England side out of jail.

Are the English really going to be glowing over Palmers goal against Spain in years to come? And even if they do, it'll ultimately lead to negative memories beyond that. We may still remember Shaw's goal v Italy, but it isn't exactly a moment the English will refer to for years to come

 

[PJ87]

Probably not. I do now, but in 10 years time, no. I'll probably remember Bellingham's overhead kick, but that will also remind me how he got an awful England side out of jail.

Are the English really going to be glowing over Palmers goal against Spain in years to come? And even if they do, it'll ultimately lead to negative memories beyond that. We may still remember Shaw's goal v Italy, but it isn't exactly a moment the English will refer to for years to come

Yet people still harp back to euro 96 which lead to negative memories?

 

[Swango1980]

Yet people still harp back to euro 96 which lead to negative memories?

Always negative memories in a tournament you don't win.

But at least Euro 96 brought several moments of huge pride. Gazza's goal v Scotland. Battering Holland. Going toe to toe with Germany and being a hairs width of winning.

Surely you have negative memories from Euro 24???

 

[PJ87]

Always negative memories in a tournament you don't win.

But at least Euro 96 brought several moments of huge pride. Gazza's goal v Scotland. Battering Holland. Going toe to toe with Germany and being a hairs width of winning.

Surely you have negative memories from Euro 24???

Yeah people undermining another achievement of making a final

 

[Swango1980]

Yeah people undermining another achievement of making a final

Can't be critical then? Shall we just arrange an open top bus tour for such a great achievement.

Sure, playing boring football and getting to final is better than playing boring football and going out in an earlier round.

How would you have summed up England's approach if Bellingham had not scored that overhead kick?

 

[PaulMdj]

Yeah people undermining another achievement of making a final

Nobody is undermining it, it was fantastic, great, stuff dreams are made of, to be in the final.

We are just being honest when we/ex-pro’s/the media and 99% of the Country say we can’t believe we did.

 

[PJ87]

Can't be critical then? Shall we just arrange an open top bus tour for such a great achievement.

Sure, playing boring football and getting to final is better than playing boring football and going out in an earlier round.

How would you have summed up England's approach if Bellingham had not scored that overhead kick?

How would you sum up England approach if rice had scored in the last min against Spain?

What happened happened.

Oh how would we judge the events if we hadn't scored a goal

Didn't happen.

 

[Swango1980]

How would you sum up England approach if rice had scored in the last min against Spain?

What happened happened.

Oh how would we judge the events if we hadn't scored a goal

Didn't happen.

A win is always fantastic, if Rice scored a last minute winner I'd have reacted even more enthusiastically than Bellinghams goal.

But, none of this counters my original point. Why is it a choice between playing boring football and getting to finals, or entertaining football and going out earlier?

Do you genuinely believe boring football is the right way to play???

 

[PJ87]

A win is always fantastic, if Rice scored a last minute winner I'd have reacted even more enthusiastically than Bellinghams goal.

But, none of this counters my original point. Why is it a choice between playing boring football and getting to finals, or entertaining football and going out earlier?

Do you genuinely believe boring football is the right way to play???

In tournament football it's one of the best tactics to get results

Greece. Portugal.

Going into the tournament there were questions about our defence. We needed to protect it how we could.

If the euros was a league over a season then no it wouldn't be the way to set up. But it's not.

 

[Swango1980]

In tournament football it's one of the best tactics to get results

Greece. Portugal.

Going into the tournament there were questions about our defence. We needed to protect it how we could.

If the euros was a league over a season then no it wouldn't be the way to set up. But it's not.

Comparing this England to Greece!? O dear.

The way I see it, nations like France and Spain and Brazil had the stars align at points in their history, where they had great sides. And, when that happened, they managed to go out and take advantage. France at turn of this century, Spain a bit later. They didn't sit back to stop opposition from playing. But they won tournaments by trying to win, and everyone knew they were worthy winners.

In my mind, the last 4 to 6 years could have been England's moment. They could have been the nation to emerge, take advantage of what they had. Given it a right good go, and maybe at least win one trophy if not more. But, they failed to do so.

It's all very well saying "isn't it wonderful we got to semis and finals". But, there is always that painful feeling that had England played with the confidence their squad probably deserved, they could have won 2 Euro's and a World Cup. At worst, they'd have win nothing, just like now.

Hopefully, England still have a few years ahead of them to push for silverware. But, if the new coach explains the plan is to play boring football, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of England fans will despair