The Footie Thread

[PJ87]

Comparing this England to Greece!? O dear.

The way I see it, nations like France and Spain and Brazil had the stars align at points in their history, where they had great sides. And, when that happened, they managed to go out and take advantage. France at turn of this century, Spain a bit later. They didn't sit back to stop opposition from playing. But they won tournaments by trying to win, and everyone knew they were worthy winners.

In my mind, the last 4 to 6 years could have been England's moment. They could have been the nation to emerge, take advantage of what they had. Given it a right good go, and maybe at least win one trophy if not more. But, they failed to do so.

It's all very well saying "isn't it wonderful we got to semis and finals". But, there is always that painful feeling that had England played with the confidence their squad probably deserved, they could have won 2 Euro's and a World Cup. At worst, they'd have win nothing, just like now.

Hopefully, England still have a few years ahead of them to push for silverware. But, if the new coach explains the plan is to play boring football, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of England fans will despair

Brazil?? Anyone who thinks we can be remotely like Brazil doesn't understand football. It's entirely different culture to English football. Don't see many England players learning on the streets and playing themselves into a move to get their families out of poverty..

Not to mention the quality of defenders for those sides mentioned

We had stones and walker as our actual tried and trusted first choice.

Caful, Carlos, Lucio, not to mention Ronaldo (the real one) ronaldinho , rivaldo .. 3 of the top players in history.

France? Again proper defenders. Mixed with talent on the pitch like Zidane ..

Spain? Oh that little mismatch of a defence in puyol, Ramos, pique.. xavi and inesita two of the finest midfielders of a generation .. with Busquets shielding that defence .. not to mention Torres and villa ..

We were a right side dominate team with a make shift defence . To compare our squad with the greats is laughable.

 

[Swango1980]

Brazil?? Anyone who thinks we can be remotely like Brazil doesn't understand football. It's entirely different culture to English football. Don't see many England players learning on the streets and playing themselves into a move to get their families out of poverty..

Not to mention the quality of defenders for those sides mentioned

We had stones and walker as our actual tried and trusted first choice.

Caful, Carlos, Lucio, not to mention Ronaldo (the real one) ronaldinho , rivaldo .. 3 of the top players in history.

France? Again proper defenders. Mixed with talent on the pitch like Zidane ..

Spain? Oh that little mismatch of a defence in puyol, Ramos, pique.. xavi and inesita two of the finest midfielders of a generation .. with Busquets shielding that defence .. not to mention Torres and villa ..

We were a right side dominate team with a make shift defence . To compare our squad with the greats is laughable.

Well, England certainly aren't greats now, because of the boring football they played and fact they won nothing.

But, just remember the buzz pre tournament. Worried defensively, but you had one of the best English strikers I've ever seen and Watkins who was a decent understudy. Wingers to die for. Bellingham, one of the finest young players to ever come through for England, touted for Balon D'Or. Foden, immense. Rice, immense at Arsenal this year. Palmer, can't even get in side, been immense.

Had England gone out and played some decent attacking football, then won the tournament as many anticipated they should, then those players would have become legends in their own right.

But they didn't, and so you are right, they can never be put alongside the greats of the past, at least until they earn it

But, to start a tournament by thinking "ohhh, we can never play like that because of our culture", and resort to boring football, is depressing. But maybe that is just the mindset of the English? Maybe that is why England will never be respected, because the world knows the culture can only give us dull, boring football to watch?

 

[Tashyboy]

History speaks for itself. When was the last time we played entertaining and got anywhere?

1966

 

[Reemul]

Well, England certainly aren't greats now, because of the boring football they played and fact they won nothing.

But, just remember the buzz pre tournament. Worried defensively, but you had one of the best English strikers I've ever seen and Watkins who was a decent understudy. Wingers to die for. Bellingham, one of the finest young players to ever come through for England, touted for Balon D'Or. Foden, immense. Rice, immense at Arsenal this year. Palmer, can't even get in side, been immense.

Had England gone out and played some decent attacking football, then won the tournament as many anticipated they should, then those players would have become legends in their own right.

But they didn't, and so you are right, they can never be put alongside the greats of the past, at least until they earn it

But, to start a tournament by thinking "ohhh, we can never play like that because of our culture", and resort to boring football, is depressing. But maybe that is just the mindset of the English? Maybe that is why England will never be respected, because the world knows the culture can only give us dull, boring football to watch?

Yep, this sums up PJ87, happy to take rubbish and not actually win anything, like hoping for top 4 finish in the league. Absolute joke, i've read all the last few pages in absolute disbelief that any would use the defence if we play attractive football we will lose. I think Pep and Klopp need to change their style.

Sometimes across the years you don't do well because you don't have the best players or you have too many holes in the squad, currently we have a great squad of players and looking at the past and round holes and square pegs we should be doing something about it. According to PJ87 we should play crap football, keep using square pegs and be grateful we continue to win nothing, like yeah, that's a winner.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

1990 and 96 were two great tournaments because it was full of teams going for it and trying to excite the crowd including England who were using the brilliance of Gazza and the pace of players like Waddle in 90 and Macca in 96 plus the creativity of players like Beardsly , Sheringham and add it the goalscoring of Linekar and Shearer

But what was different was managers that put the players in the right positions, adapted as they went and weren’t afraid to go for it

Southgate’s squad had all the ability of those players but they had a manager who can’t shine a torch to the likes of Bobby and Venables

 

[PJ87]

Yep, this sums up PJ87, happy to take rubbish and not actually win anything, like hoping for top 4 finish in the league. Absolute joke, i've read all the last few pages in absolute disbelief that any would use the defence if we play attractive football we will lose. I think Pep and Klopp need to change their style.

Sometimes across the years you don't do well because you don't have the best players or you have too many holes in the squad, currently we have a great squad of players and looking at the past and round holes and square pegs we should be doing something about it. According to PJ87 we should play crap football, keep using square pegs and be grateful we continue to win nothing, like yeah, that's a winner.

It's not we must play rubbish to win it's the acceptance that sometimes we have to play rubbish to get the results..no point going gung-ho and being knocked out on the quarters.

We played really good football in the semis against the Dutch. They were limited to dead balls and a shot from distance that went in. Against a team that had looked good previously. We played the better football and were the better side

Massively gets overlooked because it's fashionable to bash the manager for being "boring" when really this period has been one of the most exciting because we have actually got in the position to challenge for the trophy rather than just making up the numbers.

 

[Tashyboy]

I suppose its all down to opinion, and bottom line this is what the forum is for. I totally get winning ugly, I get winning boring. What I don’t get is not even trying to entertain, I don’t get players playing that look a shadow of there club form, I don’t get players playing out of position when there are better players that play that position sat at home. I don’t get taking players that are injured. I don’t get playing players who are out of form and yet start games and stay on the pitch longer than they should. I don’t get taking players that have no chance of getting one minute.
Whatever our thoughts on whether we can accept how England played during that tournament. Lineker summed it up nicely,
“ it was a victory for attacking football”. And with the squad at Southgates disposal, that could and should have been us instead of the rammel we had to watch game after game.
Now it’s ok for us armchair fans to give our opinion sat in the comfort of our homes being fed opinions of ex players and pundits before during and after games. But when fans who had travelled thousands of miles and spent thousands of pounds watching England were throwing cups at Southgate at the end of another abject performance. That summed it up for me.
Hope the next managers testicles are bigger than the last one and at least has a go.

 

[PJ87]

I suppose its all down to opinion, and bottom line this is what the forum is for. I totally get winning ugly, I get winning boring. What I don’t get is not even trying to entertain, I don’t get players playing that look a shadow of there club form, I don’t get players playing out of position when there are better players that play that position sat at home. I don’t get taking players that are injured. I don’t get playing players who are out of form and yet start games and stay on the pitch longer than they should. I don’t get taking players that have no chance of getting one minute.
Whatever our thoughts on whether we can accept how England played during that tournament. Lineker summed it up nicely,
“ it was a victory for attacking football”. And with the squad at Southgates disposal, that could and should have been us instead of the rammel we had to watch game after game.
Now it’s ok for us armchair fans to give our opinion sat in the comfort of our homes being fed opinions of ex players and pundits before during and after games. But when fans who had travelled thousands of miles and spent thousands of pounds watching England were throwing cups at Southgate at the end of another abject performance. That summed it up for me.
Hope the next managers testicles are bigger than the last one and at least has a go.

Taking players who are injured was because we had a 26 man squad. Normally 23 so you could afford to carry Shaw until the final as he wasn't costing a place

We could however have done with another left back in the mean time a natural one but chillwell did so poor before

A former colleague of mine who travels all over watching England and went to every game at the euros posted this

"As a real England fan and follower. Thank you Gareth Southgate. It’s been an amazing ride over the last few years. In terms of going deep into major competitions, our best ever period! Sadly we couldn’t quite get over the line. There’s no hiding it, coming up short in recent years is in no small part down to the tactics he employed. The environment he created for everyone concerned, players, fans, media will be his legacy. I hope we get a top coach in. I’m not sure who I’d prefer. "

 

[Tashyboy]

Taking players who are injured was because we had a 26 man squad. Normally 23 so you could afford to carry Shaw until the final as he wasn't costing a place

We could however have done with another left back in the mean time a natural one but chillwell did so poor before

A former colleague of mine who travels all over watching England and went to every game at the euros posted this

"As a real England fan and follower. Thank you Gareth Southgate. It’s been an amazing ride over the last few years. In terms of going deep into major competitions, our best ever period! Sadly we couldn’t quite get over the line. There’s no hiding it, coming up short in recent years is in no small part down to the tactics he employed. The environment he created for everyone concerned, players, fans, media will be his legacy. I hope we get a top coach in. I’m not sure who I’d prefer. "

There’s no doubt Southgates legacy will be a squad he has left is United. And to kinda emphasise that, people could well forget the days when Liverpool and Utd players would not have anything to do with one another when playing for England. Not to dissimilar to Real Madrid and Barca and Spain.

 

[ColchesterFC]

There’s no doubt Southgates legacy will be a squad he has left is United. And to kinda emphasise that, people could well forget the days when Liverpool and Utd players would not have anything to do with one another when playing for England. Not to dissimilar to Real Madrid and Barca and Spain.

Not necessarily according to some reports coming out of the squad. Some players reportedly being unhappy with Bellingham being treated differently and seemingly being above others. Hiding away from press interviews when things weren't going so well but being first in the queue to do them when things did go well.

 

[Tashyboy]

Not necessarily according to some reports coming out of the squad. Some players reportedly being unhappy with Bellingham being treated differently and seemingly being above others. Hiding away from press interviews when things weren't going so well but being first in the queue to do them when things did go well.

And that I didn’t know.

 

[PJ87]

And that I didn’t know.

Lots of rumours about Bellingham. One Southgate wouldn't have worked with at youth level. Rumours of a god complex for sure. Doesn't like playing the number 8 even tho it's his best position.

I mean it showed when his number came up to be subbed against the Neverland's was it? (By mistake) And was like must be wrong rather than coming over to the touch line and being sent back.

He frustrated me the most during the entire tournament, proper petty. Always trying to beat a player 5 times then losing the ball rather than beat them once and pass.

Perfectly fits my theory of when players arent established they will run through walls to get in that team. Like him at the world cup. Now look at him. Ego the size of big Sam

 

[Rlburnside]

It's not we must play rubbish to win it's the acceptance that sometimes we have to play rubbish to get the results..no point going gung-ho and being knocked out on the quarters.

We played really good football in the semis against the Dutch. They were limited to dead balls and a shot from distance that went in. Against a team that had looked good previously. We played the better football and were the better side

Massively gets overlooked because it's fashionable to bash the manager for being "boring" when really this period has been one of the most exciting because we have actually got in the position to challenge for the trophy rather than just making up the numbers.

I agree we played well against the Dutch but to say this has been one of the most exciting periods just because we went deep into the tournament is frankly astonishing to me.

Think back to watching the other games if we’re all honest the true story was it was dull and boring and but for two flashes of brilliance we would have been out early.

It was painful to watch and we were lucky to go so far.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I agree we played well against the Dutch but to say this has been one of the most exciting periods just because we went deep into the tournament is frankly astonishing to me.

Think back to watching the other games if we’re all honest the true story was it was dull and boring and but for two flashes of brilliance we would have been out early.

It was painful to watch and we were lucky to go so far.

Did England play that well against Holland ? I guess when compared to previous games it was a small step up but it wasn’t that great

 

[PaulMdj]

Did England play that well against Holland ? I guess when compared to previous games it was a small step up but it wasn’t that great

We did play well, if they’d of been allowed to play like they had in previous games, we’d of been beat.

Tactics wise, it was probably our best performance of the tournament.

I understand when PJ goes on about winning ugly, every big team has that in their locker, but I think were he’s missing the point, is the fact that was the only thing in our locker.

 

[PJ87]

We did play well, if they’d of been allowed to play like they had in previous games, we’d of been beat.

Tactics wise, it was probably our best performance of the tournament.

I understand when PJ goes on about winning ugly, every big team has that in their locker, but I think were he’s missing the point, is the fact that was the only thing in our locker.

Whilst I admit we played ugly a lot but it wasn't the only thing in our locker. Everytime we went behind we started to play good football, the Dutch game also we played good footballer so ugly football for that reason alone can't be the only thing in our locker

 

[PaulMdj]

Whilst I admit we played ugly a lot but it wasn't the only thing in our locker. Everytime we went behind we started to play good football, the Dutch game also we played good footballer so ugly football for that reason alone can't be the only thing in our locker

Played good football once we went behind, got an equaliser and it disappeared again! Some of that good football lasted less than 5 minutes and if playing it produced goals, why didn’t play good football more often?

 

[PJ87]

Played good football once we went behind, got an equaliser and it disappeared again! Some of that good football lasted less than 5 minutes and if playing it produced goals, why didn’t play good football more often?

Ask Jude why he lost the ability to pass 5 yards and decided to take on players left right and centre rather than just keeping the move going

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Ask Jude why he lost the ability to pass 5 yards and decided to take on players left right and centre rather than just keeping the move going

Just Bellingham ? The same Bellingham that rescued the team with his overhead kick ?

As soon as England scored they dropped deep again , it was a familiar pattern throughout Southgate’s tenure as a manager

They very rarely went at teams without the handbrake from the get go , they had fleating moments when they went behind but they could never go for the throats of an opponent due to the negative mindset of the manager

 

[PaulMdj]

Ask Jude why he lost the ability to pass 5 yards and decided to take on players left right and centre rather than just keeping the move going

It was the whole team that lost that ability.
This comes back to whose to blame? Southgate or the players.

If we could see players struggling why did he keep picking them?