The Cricket Thread

Billysboots

Falling apart at the seams
Moderator
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,416
Visit site
As I type, the majority of the CC matches in their final day are going to end in draws. Why are they still carrying on? Must be soul destroying for the players and fans

And cold. I used to detest early season games in this sort of weather.
 

Grizzly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
693
Visit site
And the Test career of Jimmy Anderson will come to an end after the first test vs the West Indies at Lords (dare if I caveat this with "if selected")

I think its the right time to move on - and he has teetered at the top of the downward slope for 12 months or so now. Still, worth reflecting on a wonderful career, one of the games great overachievers.
 

HomerJSimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
70,839
Location
Bracknell - Berkshire
Visit site
Anderson will be a massive loss for England. Agreed he is on the downhill side of his career but can still provide an inspirational delivery at times to lift a side. Has done brilliantly especially to keep his body going so long
 

Lord Tyrion

Money List Winner
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
27,460
Location
Northumberland
Visit site
And the Test career of Jimmy Anderson will come to an end after the first test vs the West Indies at Lords (dare if I caveat this with "if selected")

I think its the right time to move on - and he has teetered at the top of the downward slope for 12 months or so now. Still, worth reflecting on a wonderful career, one of the games great overachievers.
Why would you describe him as an overachiever? Odd choice of phrase.
 

Arthur Wedge

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2024
Messages
596
Location
Leighton Buzzard
Visit site
And the Test career of Jimmy Anderson will come to an end after the first test vs the West Indies at Lords (dare if I caveat this with "if selected")

I think its the right time to move on - and he has teetered at the top of the downward slope for 12 months or so now. Still, worth reflecting on a wonderful career, one of the games great overachievers.

Overachiever ? That’s certainly a different outlook , he was superb as bowler
 

Grizzly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
693
Visit site
Totally agree. Someone that found a method that worked and developed it to become the best quick bowler in history

Why would I describe him as an overachiever?

Firstly, just to be clear, it was meant as a term of respect, not a criticism as some seem to have interpreted it. If the simple fact of any seamer taking 700 test wickets and lasting 20 years in the international game in not evidence enough, look at how he got to that stage. Where most quick bowler arrive in the international game near enough their peak, Anderson's early years were beset by coaches messing around with his action and his record after 50 tests was significantly worse than his eventual figures. At various times he faced down doubts about his ability to bowl in overseas conditions, first in Australia then on the sub-continent. He learned different methods, maximising his skill set. In conclusion, classic overachiever.

He is not, however, the best quick bowler in history.
 

Lord Tyrion

Money List Winner
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
27,460
Location
Northumberland
Visit site
I don't think even Anderson would claim to be a quick bowler. I'm not sure anyone is calling him the best quick / seamer / swing bowler in history either. He does go down, imo, as one of the best English bowlers ever and someone who has very definitely made his mark on the world stage. A great test match bowler.
 

Grizzly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
693
Visit site
I don't think even Anderson would claim to be a quick bowler. I'm not sure anyone is calling him the best quick / seamer / swing bowler in history either. He does go down, imo, as one of the best English bowlers ever and someone who has very definitely made his mark on the world stage. A great test match bowler.

Well, at least one person did, above.
 

Neilds

Assistant Pro
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
3,815
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
I don't think even Anderson would claim to be a quick bowler. I'm not sure anyone is calling him the best quick / seamer / swing bowler in history either. He does go down, imo, as one of the best English bowlers ever and someone who has very definitely made his mark on the world stage. A great test match bowler.
He has taken the most test wickets than any other non spin bowler in history by a country mile. I know that they play more tests nowadays than in the past but wickets are more batsmen friendly so it must be harder to take wickets. He has nearly 100 more than Broad, nearly 150 more than McGrath and nearly 300 more than Ambrose and Akram. All those could be considered the best so why not Jimmy?
 

Lord Tyrion

Money List Winner
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
27,460
Location
Northumberland
Visit site
He has taken the most test wickets than any other non spin bowler in history by a country mile. I know that they play more tests nowadays than in the past but wickets are more batsmen friendly so it must be harder to take wickets. He has nearly 100 more than Broad, nearly 150 more than McGrath and nearly 300 more than Ambrose and Akram. All those could be considered the best so why not Jimmy?
I think trying to pinpoint the best is nigh on impossible, apart from the discussion about batting because Bradman walks that by a country mile 😄 . Anderson can certainly be in the discussion, no question.

Going against him, medium to quick bowlers who have taken over 300 wickets and have a better bowling average than Anderson are as follows: McGrath, Walsh, Steyn, Hadlee, Pollock, Akram, Ambrose, Marshall, Younis, Khan, Lille, Donald, Willis, Trueman

Anderson has stayed incredibly fit, allowing him to play a huge number of tests for a bowler of his type, leading to more wickets than the others. Longevity alone doesn't win the day though, not imo. Whilst he was world class, there are a few in that list I would be throwing the ball at before Jimmy.
 
Last edited:

Paperboy

Mini Cam
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
1,927
Location
Southampton, Hampshire
Visit site
I know quite a few Hampshire fans, and all of them say the greatest fast bowler ever was Malcolm Marshall. Unfortunately probably didn't get as many tests as he could have due to the west indies fast bowling stocks at the time.
 

Grizzly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
693
Visit site
I'm not a Hampshire fan, and I think Marshall is the best - certainly the most complete - fast bowler that I have seen. Properly rapid, but also capable of moving the ball both ways in the air and off the pitch, and with the most terrific bounder.
 

Grizzly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
693
Visit site
He has taken the most test wickets than any other non spin bowler in history by a country mile. I know that they play more tests nowadays than in the past but wickets are more batsmen friendly so it must be harder to take wickets. He has nearly 100 more than Broad, nearly 150 more than McGrath and nearly 300 more than Ambrose and Akram. All those could be considered the best so why not Jimmy?

Because longevity, whilst incredibly laudable, is not one of the criteria for that epithet. Put simply, Anderson has taken more wickets, but he has also played a lot more Test matches than any other seam bowler. Taking a couple of examples, if Dale Steyn's record extended over the same number of Tests, he would be just shy of 900 wickets and Richard Hadlee would be approaching 950.
 

Arthur Wedge

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2024
Messages
596
Location
Leighton Buzzard
Visit site
I'm not a Hampshire fan, and I think Marshall is the best - certainly the most complete - fast bowler that I have seen. Properly rapid, but also capable of moving the ball both ways in the air and off the pitch, and with the most terrific bounder.

Marshall was lethal

Remember watching him in the 80’s down in Taunton and seeing Viv face him

It’s a shame that they don’t produce the likes of him - Roberts , Holding , Croft , Walsh and of course big Joel Garner
 

Neilds

Assistant Pro
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
3,815
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Pity they can’t work out some sort of wickets x average to work out who has the better record. I know they mention strike rate plus average to show who are the top t20 batsmen and would be good to see something similar for bowlers
 

Grizzly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
693
Visit site
Pity they can’t work out some sort of wickets x average to work out who has the better record. I know they mention strike rate plus average to show who are the top t20 batsmen and would be good to see something similar for bowlers

Very much so, but also very unlikely. There are just too many complexities - how do you account, for example, for someone like Matthew Hoggard, whose overall record was good but not great, but whose record of removing top five batsmen for low scores was stellar?
 
Top