Tending the flag

[Swango1980]

That means the pointless practice will carry on then.
I remember reading Dave Pelz’s book where he quoted the stat that only 50% of 6 foot putts were holed on the pga tour.
So, now you you are allowed to leave the flag in, why would anyone want it tended?
A long putt is likely to end up with a better result with the flag left in.

I doubt leaving the flag in is useful at giving you a better result for a long putt generally, particularly at pro level.

I have seen no end of putts going towards the middle of the hole, at a good pace, then hit the flag stick and deflect out. Almost certainly would have been holed had flag not been in.

Seen very few putts fly over the hole with no flag in (though if they do, usually hit back edge, jump up and end up next to hole).

And given the pro's are usually good with the weight of their putts, having a hole with no obstructions in it must be the better option. Only seen a few who actively keep flag in, and I think those are often golfers who have had putting issues and try all sorts of different things to see if it gives then a psychological edge.

 

[Mandofred]

I doubt leaving the flag in is useful at giving you a better result for a long putt generally, particularly at pro level.

I have seen no end of putts going towards the middle of the hole, at a good pace, then hit the flag stick and deflect out. Almost certainly would have been holed had flag not been in.

Seen very few putts fly over the hole with no flag in (though if they do, usually hit back edge, jump up and end up next to hole).

And given the pro's are usually good with the weight of their putts, having a hole with no obstructions in it must be the better option. Only seen a few who actively keep flag in, and I think those are often golfers who have had putting issues and try all sorts of different things to see if it gives then a psychological edge.

Hitting the flag has by a long ways helped me more often than hurt me. Perception differs.....I don't know how many times I've had people swear the ball would have gone in without the flag in the way....at a speed that was way too fast.

 

[upsidedown]

Having had quite a few bounce off, our slim carbon fibre ones ,it's out for me from anything less than 40 foot now.

 

[hambugerpete]

Having had quite a few bounce off, our slim carbon fibre ones ,it's out for me from anything less than 40 foot now.

You're more likely to 3 putt from 40 feet than hole it. Sounds like you need to work on pace if they're bouncing off from range

 

[Swango1980]

Hitting the flag has by a long ways helped me more often than hurt me. Perception differs.....I don't know how many times I've had people swear the ball would have gone in without the flag in the way....at a speed that was way too fast.

I've not done the research, with my opinion based on my experience. But, the following link goes into quite a bit of detail on it

Flagstick Out!: The science behind why the flagstick should be pulled 99.9 percent of the time

If only Davis Thompson has seen this Ph.D. Research before seeing his birdie putt on the 71st hole of the 2023 American Express clang off the flagstick

www.golfdigest.com

Basically, the only time the flagstick helps the ball go in is if it hits the centre of it, and ball would have been going 9 foot or more past (which will hopefully be rare)

But, a ball that hits flag stick off centre (more common), it would be twice as likely to be holed if flagstick wasn't in the hole.

Those are the types I've frequently seen hit the flag and deflect to side of hole.

I mean, personally I'll still happily putt with flag in for long putts, as odds I make it are remote anyway. But it's why I'll always have the flag away if I fancy it is makeable. The hole just looks bigger, with no obstruction to potentially deflect ball out of hole

 

[hambugerpete]

I've not done the research, with my opinion based on my experience. But, the following link goes into quite a bit of detail on it

Flagstick Out!: The science behind why the flagstick should be pulled 99.9 percent of the time

If only Davis Thompson has seen this Ph.D. Research before seeing his birdie putt on the 71st hole of the 2023 American Express clang off the flagstick

www.golfdigest.com

Basically, the only time the flagstick helps the ball go in is if it hits the centre of it, and ball would have been going 9 foot or more past (which will hopefully be rare)

But, a ball that hits flag stick off centre (more common), it would be twice as likely to be holed if flagstick wasn't in the hole.

Those are the types I've frequently seen hit the flag and deflect to side of hole.

I mean, personally I'll still happily putt with flag in for long putts, as odds I make it are remote anyway. But it's why I'll always have the flag away if I fancy it is makeable. The hole just looks bigger, with no obstruction to potentially deflect ball out of hole

I read a bit of that , it's a long way from being science... Some of the claims are dubious to say the least.
The flags at my course are tapered and I am fine with them left in. Id say I've seen more putts go over the hole that may have dropped or finished nearer if the player hasn't insisted on flag out. Better to concentrate on pace than worrying if your 20 footer might catch the flag.

 

[upsidedown]

You're more likely to 3 putt from 40 feet than hole it. Sounds like you need to work on pace if they're bouncing off from range

Actually you couldn't be farther from the truth as I rarely 3 putt from 40 foot

 

[hambugerpete]

Actually you couldn't be farther from the truth as I rarely 3 putt from 40 foot

 

[Orikoru]

I'd have a little chuckle and maybe a joke as it's been about five years since I was last asked to do it, but I wouldn't refuse - that would just be awkward.

Even if you did think someone was only asking for gamesmanship in a match, why would you make it obvious you've risen to it?? You'd just quietly get on with it so they assume their gamesmanship has failed.

 

[Mandofred]

I've not done the research, with my opinion based on my experience. But, the following link goes into quite a bit of detail on it

Flagstick Out!: The science behind why the flagstick should be pulled 99.9 percent of the time

If only Davis Thompson has seen this Ph.D. Research before seeing his birdie putt on the 71st hole of the 2023 American Express clang off the flagstick

www.golfdigest.com

Basically, the only time the flagstick helps the ball go in is if it hits the centre of it, and ball would have been going 9 foot or more past (which will hopefully be rare)

But, a ball that hits flag stick off centre (more common), it would be twice as likely to be holed if flagstick wasn't in the hole.

Those are the types I've frequently seen hit the flag and deflect to side of hole.

I mean, personally I'll still happily putt with flag in for long putts, as odds I make it are remote anyway. But it's why I'll always have the flag away if I fancy it is makeable. The hole just looks bigger, with no obstruction to potentially deflect ball out of hole

Take a look at a bunch of articles on this. There are some that say it's better to leave the flag in...some that it is better out (but 99% is just silly). I think it is pretty close to 50-50 and it is more up to what you have more confidence in. Some would then say the pro's have the flag out, although there were some recently that were putting with the flag in......which if having the flag in was sooooo bad they wouldn't have even considered doing......and the pro's also get the holes painted in so they can see the hole better anyway. It's just one of those things that everybody won't agree on and insist the other people are wrong.

I also think the opinion of players is based on their skewed way of interpreting things that happen. As an example of something that has happened to me....I consider myself to have a pretty weak short chipping ability and have stated in the past that it's the worst part of my game. Others then disagree and point out the great chip I had a few holes ago. I agree, that chip was really good...but then I remind them of the 2 duffed chips early in the round. You can see them think about it and then go "oh, yeah".....they only remember what they want to remember. Same with the ball bouncing off the flag......some people only remember the ones that probably would have gone in if the flag wasn't there and forget the times that it helped them.

 

[Hobbit]

Why create a poor atmosphere in a round? If a guy wants the flag tended, I’d tend it. Wouldn’t give it a second thought.

Equally, I might want help looking for a ball a few holes later. If I refuse to tend the flag, I might find I’m looking for the ball by myself.

 

[KenL]

Why create a poor atmosphere in a round? If a guy wants the flag tended, I’d tend it. Wouldn’t give it a second thought.

Equally, I might want help looking for a ball a few holes later. If I refuse to tend the flag, I might find I’m looking for the ball by myself.

If I was playing a tie or a comp, I would tend without question - but in a bounce game it is a different matter.
As I said earlier, I’ve only been asked once since March 2020.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I have spent way over half a century attending the flagstick when requested and have no intention of refusing or making an issue if requested to do so.

I witnessed a culture of tending the flagstick in Australia.
Once the flagstick is removed from the hole, the flagstick must be held by someone and never set down on the ground.
Thus one person can be said to be tending the flagstick. When that person needs to putt, the flagstick is passed to another to tend it.

In the UK, I tend to tend the flagstick, once I have holed out, by picking it up off the ground and make ready to replace it after everyone else has holed out.

 

[Mandofred]

Being a strange fellow....I just got to thinking....wouldn't it be great if they could put a hologram device in the bottom of the cup that would show a flagpole, but it wouldn't actually be there. I bet somebody would still want it taken out

 

[Voyager EMH]

Being a strange fellow....I just got to thinking....wouldn't it be great if they could put a hologram device in the bottom of the cup that would show a flagpole, but it wouldn't actually be there. I bet somebody would still want it taken out

Brilliant.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No problem at all. Logically, someone might think the ball goes in the hole easier with no flag, but they're too far to see it clearly.

If someone is trying to wind you up, it's better to show no reaction.

Exactly this.

If I asked for flag to be attended…which as above I conceivably might do…I don’t give a toss what the person asked might think of me as long as he acceded to my request. If he refused I would most certainly consider him a nob. Rude and discourteous as well. I would probably bite my tongue.

 

[hambugerpete]

Exactly this.

If I asked for flag to be attended…which as above I conceivably might do…I don’t give a toss what the person asked might think of me as long as he acceded to my request. If he refused I would most certainly consider him a nob. Rude and discourteous as well. I would probably bite my tongue.

It's funny as I wouldn't dream of asking anyone to do it. Id think anyone who does is just being a dick. Sure if they asked I'd tend and all that, but as far as I can see there is no reason to ask. If the hole is so far away you can only see if it has the flag in then holing it is very unlikely to say the least.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's funny as I wouldn't dream of asking anyone to do it. Id think anyone who does is just being a dick. Sure if they asked I'd tend and all that, but as far as I can see there is no reason to ask. If the hole is so far away you can only see if it has the flag in then holing it is very unlikely to say the least.

It’s not for the person being asked to reason why…

 

[hambugerpete]

It’s not for the person being asked to reason why…

Strange answer, we are all allowed to reason. Id probably ask why they wanted it done to be honest and walk away the second they hit the ball

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Strange answer, we are all allowed to reason. Id probably ask why they wanted it done to be honest and walk away the second they hit the ball

There is an world of difference between asking about the rationale and discussing a rules decision or scenario, and acceding to an etiquette request.