Attending the flag.

[clubchamp98]

I would like a ruling on attending the flag.
Player A asks Player B to attend the flag for him.
A likes the flag out but can’t quite see the hole.
B flatly refuses to attend the flag saying “ you can have it in and you are wasting my time asking me to attend it”

So stalemate ,nobody is giving way.
Match abandoned .
Whats the comittiees decision given this is an option under the rules of golf?

 

[IJames]

This article might help https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/golf-flagstick-rules/

 

[clubchamp98]

This article might help https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/golf-flagstick-rules/

Dosnt answer the question!

 

[rulie]

I would like a ruling on attending the flag.
Player A asks Player B to attend the flag for him.
A likes the flag out but can’t quite see the hole.
B flatly refuses to attend the flag saying “ you can have it in and you are wasting my time asking me to attend it”

So stalemate ,nobody is giving way.
Match abandoned .
Whats the comittiees decision given this is an option under the rules of golf?

Maybe a minor breach of etiquette by player B, but there is no Rules breach for that. If A doesn't want to continue with the flag in or out, then it could be unreasonable delay, Rule 5.6,

 

[IJames]

Dosnt answer the question!

Well, it does confirm that a player is entitled to have a player attend the flag, so an indication of how any claim should be resolved!

 

[rulie]

Well, it does confirm that a player is entitled to have a player attend the flag, so an indication of how any claim should be resolved!

The Rules don't require another player to attend the flag when asked. Sure, a player is "entitled" to have it attended, but nobody is obligated to do so.

 

[Steven Rules]

I have never heard of anyone refusing to attend the flagstick. Bizarre. Stalemate? Match abandoned? That's extreme. What did the Committee think of that?

 

[salfordlad]

The first issue is B is, IMO, in breach of 1.2a by failing to show consideration to others. However, that brings no penalty unless the Committee considers serious misconduct has occurred and the guidance on that issue suggests this lack of consideration doesn't get anywhere near serious misconduct.
In practice, A has no recourse at the time and needs to play on. Failure to do so on A's part would be a much more significant breach of the Rules- there is no right in the rules for A to refuse to play on as a consequence of an opponent being inconsiderate. A could report B's behaviour to the Committee and they might want to have a conversation with B reminding him of the mutual obligations players have. They might also advise that future repetitions could be considered as serious misconduct or result in administrative sanctions but none of that is of any immediate assistance to A.
No information was provided on how play ceased. If one player only refused to play on, then that is a DQ penalty under 5.7.

 

[RichA]

If Player A really wants the flag attended he is perfectly entitled to employ a caddy to do it for him. That way his playing partners are free to focus on their own putts, rather than it being all about Player A.

 

[Imurg]

If Player A really wants the flag attended he is perfectly entitled to employ a caddy to do it for him. That way his playing partners are free to focus on their own putts, rather than it being all about Player A.

Instead it's all about Player B...
I want to concentrate on my putt so I'm not going to help you with yours.....
What happened to manners and being helpful and friendly..?
So it takes a few seconds....people need to gravitate back to reality.....

 

[King Julian]

I would like a ruling on attending the flag.
Player A asks Player B to attend the flag for him.
A likes the flag out but can’t quite see the hole.
B flatly refuses to attend the flag saying “ you can have it in and you are wasting my time asking me to attend it”

So stalemate ,nobody is giving way.
Match abandoned .
Whats the comittiees decision given this is an option under the rules of golf?

King Julian wants to know why clubchamp98 still has the flag attended , given that once you get past 10 feet , even king Julian is more likely to miss than hole the putt.

 

[RichA]

Instead it's all about Player B...
I want to concentrate on my putt so I'm not going to help you with yours.....
What happened to manners and being helpful and friendly..?
So it takes a few seconds....people need to gravitate back to reality.....

I think the reality is that most recreational golfers can't see the point. I don't remember ever being asked to attend the flag. It's very much something that's only mentioned on this forum, from my point of view.
From the distance anyone might want the flag attended it's highly unlikely to make any difference.
Ball bounces out of hole - "The flag would've stopped that."
Ball bounces off flag - "That would've dropped if the flag was out."

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think the reality is that most recreational golfers can't see the point. I don't remember ever being asked to attend the flag. It's very much something that's only mentioned on this forum, from my point of view.
From the distance anyone might want the flag attended it's highly unlikely to make any difference.
Ball bounces out of hole - "The flag would've stopped that."
Ball bounces off flag - "That would've dropped if the flag was out."

But if I am asked I will do it without question or delay, and would not consider doing so as unnecessary or as introducing unnecessary delay. The time it takes is insignificant and is of minimal inconvenience (if any at all) in the context of what we do for each other and the time taken for the normal turn of events in a round of golf. I am afraid I would consider a reluctance or refusal to attend a flag on request by another player as simply selfish and disrespectful.

Golf should not always and only be ‘all about me and what I want and think’. Maybe that’s an old-fashioned and obsolete notion in these times, but consideration and respect for others are key for me, and not just in golf. If I do it in life then I can and should do it in a round of golf.

 

[Imurg]

I think the reality is that most recreational golfers can't see the point. I don't remember ever being asked to attend the flag. It's very much something that's only mentioned on this forum, from my point of view.
From the distance anyone might want the flag attended it's highly unlikely to make any difference.
Ball bounces out of hole - "The flag would've stopped that."
Ball bounces off flag - "That would've dropped if the flag was out."

These days there is little point
I haven't been asked to do it since the rule was changed in 2019...that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if I was asked, I wouldn't even question it out loud.
I don't get the animosity towards it. Especially when you're rarely going to be asked to do it....

 

[Swango1980]

If Player A really wants the flag attended he is perfectly entitled to employ a caddy to do it for him. That way his playing partners are free to focus on their own putts, rather than it being all about Player A.

You sound like Player B

Seems bizarre for Player B to refuse such a request, on the face of it just seems down right rude. On the other hand, I don't think I've been asked to attend a flag, or seen anyone else been asked to attend it, since the rules changed. I've played a hell of a lot of 18 hole rounds since then. So, I do wonder why Player A even wanted the flag attended? I wonder if this is just an odd habit they have, or did Player B think it was employed as a bit of mind games? I guess we need to be there to witness the context of how this disagreement came about.

 

[RichA]

These days there is little point
I haven't been asked to do it since the rule was changed in 2019...that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it if I was asked, I wouldn't even question it out loud.
I don't get the animosity towards it. Especially when you're rarely going to be asked to do it....

But I'm getting the impression that the player who does ask for it to be done is probably going to ask on every other hole.
When I play a round of golf I don't ever recall asking anyone to do anything for me.
The selfishness thing mentioned elsewhere is nonsense, flip-flopping of responsibility. It reminds me of my mother constantly nagging my dad to do little things for her that didn't need doing or that she could have done herself but she liked the attention. He would ask her if she'd considered hiring a servant. My view here is have you considered hiring a caddy.

 

[clubchamp98]

King Julian wants to know why clubchamp98 still has the flag attended , given that once you get past 10 feet , even king Julian is more likely to miss than hole the putt.

I think the King needs to read it again .
it’s a made up scenario that dosnt include any names.

 

[clubchamp98]

You sound like Player B

Seems bizarre for Player B to refuse such a request, on the face of it just seems down right rude. On the other hand, I don't think I've been asked to attend a flag, or seen anyone else been asked to attend it, since the rules changed. I've played a hell of a lot of 18 hole rounds since then. So, I do wonder why Player A even wanted the flag attended? I wonder if this is just an odd habit they have, or did Player B think it was employed as a bit of mind games? I guess we need to be there to witness the context of how this disagreement came about.

It’s a made up scenario given it was being discussed elsewhere.
I just wanted to know if a refusal was ok under the rules, given it is allowed can someone refuse to comply.
apparently it’s an etiquette thing even though it’s quite clearly written in the rule book.

The waste of time thing just dosnt compute for me, I have spent more time looking for a pps tee that’s gone missing!

 

[Orikoru]

But I'm getting the impression that the player who does ask for it to be done is probably going to ask on every other hole.
When I play a round of golf I don't ever recall asking anyone to do anything for me.
The selfishness thing mentioned elsewhere is nonsense, flip-flopping of responsibility. It reminds me of my mother constantly nagging my dad to do little things for her that didn't need doing or that she could have done herself but she liked the attention. He would ask her if she'd considered hiring a servant. My view here is have you considered hiring a caddy.

Agree. With the rules having changes as they are, being asked to attend the flag would be akin to someone asking you to hold their bag for them while they teed off. You'd question it and they might give some soppy reason like "I don't want my bag to get muddy" and you'd just think they were an oddball.

 

[Bdill93]

My take on this is that anyone unwilling to simply grab a flag for a PP should seriously question themselves in a mirror. Its harder work to be awkward than compliant.