Qualifying comp: How come?

[Mattyboy]

Today we had our annual bogey competition. In other words its full handicap matchplay against the course. This year they made it full handicap (as opposed to 3/4 in previous years) and I understand (after the round!) that this was make it a qualifying comp!
Two questions:
1) How can a standard scratch be calculated as if you miss a par putt (i.e. for a half with the course) you pick up. You do not record your score and just mark the card as a 'loss'. So net double bogeys do not come into the equation for CSS purposes.
2) Should we be told before going out that it is a qualifying comp? I have hurt my shoulder and wouldnt have bothered if I had known.

Ironically, assuming the CSS does not change, I have copped 0.1 by 1 shot!

Any thoughts from the handicap committee members out there?

Thanks in advance.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Today we had our annual bogey competition. In other words its full handicap matchplay against the course. This year they made it full handicap (as opposed to 3/4 in previous years) and I understand (after the round!) that this was make it a qualifying comp!
Two questions:
1) How can a standard scratch be calculated as if you miss a par putt (i.e. for a half with the course) you pick up. You do not record your score and just mark the card as a 'loss'. So net double bogeys do not come into the equation for CSS purposes.
2) Should we be told before going out that it is a qualifying comp? I have hurt my shoulder and wouldnt have bothered if I had known.

Ironically, assuming the CSS does not change, I have copped 0.1 by 1 shot!

Any thoughts from the handicap committee members out there?

Thanks in advance.

Our bogey comp was a qualifier last week and I know for a fact that some people picked up if they couldn't get a half but could have got a point which simply has to affect CSS. We were told before it was a qualifier but the message didn't get through to some people.

You should have been told beforehand it was a qualifier, if you weren't then the comp should be voided.

 

[chrisd]

I would think that it could be a qualifier because they would use stableford adjustment scoring.

 

[rosecott]

I would think that it could be a qualifier because they would use stableford adjustment scoring.

Stableford adjustment does not apply to Bogey competitions - only medal (strokeplay.

 

[rosecott]

You should have been told beforehand it was a qualifier, if you weren't then the comp should be voided.

The other way round.

You should always assume a medal/stableford/bogey competition with full handicap allowance is a qualifier unless otherwise advised (and there has to be good reason for it not to be a qualifier).

 

[Foxholer]

Lack of communication on the Club's part I'm afraid. Should have been stressed when your entry was taken and your card supplied. Bet there's more than the usual number of NRs! I'd suggest you complain.

Was not happy last time I played Bogey comp and found that my Birdie on a stroke hole didn't count for handicap! Likewise, I have a different mindset for (long/ricky) putts for a half as opposed to those for 2 points. So, while I applaud Congu for effort at trying to get more qualifying rounds, I don't believe that Bogey/Par comps should be qualifying ones.

BTW. Bogey/Par competitions are defined (Rules 32-1) as Strokeplay competitions, so 'Matchplay against the Course' is not right.

 

[moogie]

Why not just play the Bogey Comp, as if you were playing a Medal, and just hole out on every hole, recording a score, surely then the card could be used for adjustment............???
I dunno...........just a suggestion, happy to be corrected

 

[Region3]

I'm with you Matty. I found it strange when I learned that bogey comps could be used as qualifiers.

Stableford adjustment effectively becomes rounded down to nett bogey and as mentioned above scores are also rounded UP to nett birdie.

I emailed CONGU about it and they agreed it was slightly odd and that they were reconsidering whether or not bogey should continue to be suitable for qualifiers.

 

[rosecott]

Bet there's more than the usual number of NRs!

Any reason why you would have a N/R?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm with you Matty. I found it strange when I learned that bogey comps could be used as qualifiers.

Stableford adjustment effectively becomes rounded down to nett bogey and as mentioned above scores are also rounded UP to nett birdie.

I emailed CONGU about it and they agreed it was slightly odd and that they were reconsidering whether or not bogey should continue to be suitable for qualifiers.

So my birdie on SI2 only counted for the equivelent of 3 stableford points and not 4? I'm confused

 

[rosecott]

So my birdie on SI2 only counted for the equivelent of 3 stableford points and not 4? I'm confused

Serves you right for having a birdie on SI2 - 10 handicaps shouldn't do that kind of thing.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Serves you right for having a birdie on SI2 - 10 handicaps shouldn't do that kind of thing.

Actually it was SI1 I birdied, missed birdie putts on SI4 & 5 too. Anyhow, that's irrelevent and I feel My ignorance may have cost me 0.1

If I had par'd the last on the 2nd day I would have been all square with the course but only had 33points if it were s'ford. To try to get to he buffer I went for the pin to make birdie which meant I had to pitch just over the pond. I came up short and lost the hole. Are you saying that if I'd made my par by going past the pin and two putting a half over all would have seen me in the buffer despite only scoring the equivelent of 33pts?

 

[rosecott]

Actually it was SI1 I birdied, missed birdie putts on SI4 & 5 too. Anyhow, that's irrelevent and I feel My ignorance may have cost me 0.1

If I had par'd the last on the 2nd day I would have been all square with the course but only had 33points if it were s'ford. To try to get to he buffer I went for the pin to make birdie which meant I had to pitch just over the pond. I came up short and lost the hole. Are you saying that if I'd made my par by going past the pin and two putting a half over all would have seen me in the buffer despite only scoring the equivelent of 33pts?

That depends on the relationship between the course par and CSS.
Par = CSS, then Bogey All Square = Nett Differential 0
Par 3 more than CSS, then Bogey All Square = Nett Differential +3
Par 3 less than CSS, then Bogey All Square = Nett Differential -3

 

[HawkeyeMS]

That depends on the relationship between the course par and CSS.
Par = CSS, then Bogey All Square = Nett Differential 0
Par 3 more than CSS, then Bogey All Square = Nett Differential +3
Par 3 less than CSS, then Bogey All Square = Nett Differential -3

Turns out CSS was 69, so would have gone up anyway, still, at least I know for next year. CSS is rarely ever 69 at our place and there were as many people 7 down or worse to the course as there were level or better so I'm not even going to attempt to work that out.

I still find it odd that a medal score that could get you a 0.1 can get you a cut in bogey but that's the way it is and at least I've learnt something - everyday's a school day

 

[duncan mackie]

there were as many people 7 down or worse to the course as there were level or better so I'm not even going to attempt to work that out.

how far is absolutley irrelevant - there, or thereabouts, is everything. with the change to category buffer zones the rule of thumb is around 30-50% of players meeting their buffer zone or better representing normality.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

how far is absolutley irrelevant - there, or thereabouts, is everything. with the change to category buffer zones the rule of thumb is around 30-50% of players meeting their buffer zone or better representing normality.

I know the way it's worked out normally but there were 70+ entries and 13 were level or better, everyone else went up 0.1. That's less than 20% of the field not going up. As I said, in s'ford or medal off the white tees CSS goes below par once in a blue moon so something about bogey comps doesn't add up.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Listen Hawkeye don't go getting all precious on me and making waves. It took a lot of hard work to get my cut from 13.3 to 12.0 and I don't need someone mucking it up now and getting the whole thing voided. There's a good chap

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Listen Hawkeye don't go getting all precious on me and making waves. It took a lot of hard work to get my cut from 13.3 to 12.0 and I don't need someone mucking it up now and getting the whole thing voided. There's a good chap

Not saying it should be voided mate, the way it is calculated is legit, it just doesn't make sense that someone can get cut in bogey for a round that would have got them 0.1 in s'ford or medal. For what it's worth, your score on day 2 would have got you to 11.8 in any other format but in bogey you only went to 12 - just doesn't seem to make sense

 

[Mattyboy]

Thanks for your thoughts - As has been said - I would expect the number of NRs to be sky high - as it wasnt known to be a qualifier before hand. Also, I doubt the SSS will change as theres no such thing as a double bogey.
I would expect the CSS etc to be confirmed on How Did I Do in the next couple of days.

Still not a happy chap about this. I will let you know what happens.

 

[rosecott]

I would expect the number of NRs to be sky high

Technically you can't N/R in a Bogey competition. If you've played, you have a bogey result for each hole and a bogey result for the round. It's possible you could have a loss on every hole and end up -18, in which case you would probably forget to hand your card in.