Qualification for your CC

[Orikoru]

And clubs will adjust and look at their rules to fit their membership

Some clubs have 100 plus amount of golfers of HC of 5 and below so they will have limits applied

Depends on your club. I've just had a scan down the men's handicap list at my club and there are currently 87 people who have an index of 7.7 and under who would be eligible to enter. An index of 7.8 is a playing handicap of 10 at my place.

Yeah, you are both right. I can see how clubs have vastly different numbers and different handicaps, of course. It just feels funny to me to cut people by handicap on a scratch comp - to my mind, anyone higher than mid-handicap it would be completely pointless them entering anyway. Surely you're not likely to have groups and groups of 20-30 handicappers plodding round on a scratch competition??

 

[GB72]

Everyone can compete in multiple competitions

How many ladies do you think will play in comps with men ?

How many people can you fit into a competition each day ?

What about those that can only play Saturday and can’t get a spot on Saturday comp because it’s been opened up to the whole club

The handicap system alone is not fit to provide the level playing field across all the sections

It’s pure fantasy land to have every single comp open to all - it’s not practical in any way

Common sense must be applied - a balance must be applied , there is only a finite amount of golfers that can be put onto a course at any one time.

We have our club champs across two day with two comps running alongside.

We have senior comps for the seniors golfers - they wouldn’t play if it was opened up to all , ladies comps for ladies - they wouldn’t play if it was opened up to all.

You must have been away from golf comps and members for a long time if you think opening up every comp to all is a workable solution

Thank you for being patronising, really appreciated.

Limited space, first come first served, book your tee time and off you go.

I can only play on a Satuday and Sunday, does that mean because the 'Elite' want to play amongst themselves at weekends, every higher handicapper should be denied access.

Surely access to all is the correct way. I am assuming that you are suggesting that seniors and ladies competitions should be in the week.

Just because I have not held a membership it does not mean that I do not know how things work.

Still, you can happily keep up with advocating eliite rights and I will stick with supporting those who dumb the sport down.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thank you for being patronising, really appreciated.

Limited space, first come first served, book your tee time and off you go.

I can only play on a Satuday and Sunday, does that mean because the 'Elite' want to play amongst themselves at weekends, every higher handicapper should be denied access.

Surely access to all is the correct way. I am assuming that you are suggesting that seniors and ladies competitions should be in the week.

Just because I have not held a membership it does not mean that I do not know how things work.

Still, you can happily keep up with advocating eliite rights and I will stick with supporting those who dumb the sport down.

We have two comps all year that are scratch - just two , that’s just two competitions where it’s the best golf wins - every single other competition in the club is HC adjusted - so the “elite” of the club are very much well under represented when it comes to competitive golf.

When did anyone suggest anything of the “elite” being only playing at the weekend and everyone else denied.

We have senior comps during the week because that’s where they want them , we have ladies comps at both the weekday then extended to the weekend for the ladies that work

maybe to make it fair and open to all - every single competition is open to all without HC - so that the best golfer on the day wins sounds fair yes ? Can’t get any more inclusive than that


Golf is - getting the ball into the hole in as little amount of shots possible. The club championship is about finding the best golfer - not the best golfer with some shots taken off his score.

So yes it would be good to have at the very least the club champion competition limited to the best golfers in the club to find out who is the very best.

It’s a shame that it’s deemed “non inclusive” to deny people entry based on ability - there is a simple answer - get better at the sport.

 

[IanM]

@GB72 has a point if folk are unreasonably denied access to the course.

But, I'm not sure that less than 1% of the days in a calendar year constitutes "unreasonable." (ie 3 days a year for scratch clubs champs)

If there was a club that didn't allow the majority of the club to play at prime times, I would be joining it. I can't think if any club I've been at that did this though.

 

[GB72]

We have two comps all year that are scratch - just two , that’s just two competitions where it’s the best golf wins - every single other competition in the club is HC adjusted - so the “elite” of the club are very much well under represented when it comes to competitive golf.

When did anyone suggest anything of the “elite” being only playing at the weekend and everyone else denied.

We have senior comps during the week because that’s where they want them , we have ladies comps at both the weekday then extended to the weekend for the ladies that work

maybe to make it fair and open to all - every single competition is open to all without HC - so that the best golfer on the day wins sounds fair yes ? Can’t get any more inclusive than that


Golf is - getting the ball into the hole in as little amount of shots possible. The club championship is about finding the best golfer - not the best golfer with some shots taken off his score.

So yes it would be good to have at the very least the club champion competition limited to the best golfers in the club to find out who is the very best.

It’s a shame that it’s deemed “non inclusive” to deny people entry based on ability - there is a simple answer - get better at the sport.

And that last line is the kicker.

That is about as elitist a post as I have read and remains equally patronising.

The elite are not under represented, they can enter every competition save from those that it is deemed OK to exclude them based on age and gender. The elite are perfectly well represented.

Actually, no, the handicap system is what makes golf inclusive allowing people of all ages and disablities to compete. Your implication that golf would be better without handicaps would reduce the playing numbers massively. Plus who is to say that a higher handicapper will not have the round of their life and win. It can happen.

Still, stay on the elitist bandwagon, I am happy dumbing down the course.

 

[GB72]

@GB72 has a point if folk are unreasonably denied access to the course.

But, I'm not sure that less than 1% of the days in a calendar year constitutes "unreasonable." (ie 3 days a year for scratch clubs champs)

If there was a club that didn't allow the majority of the club to play at prime times, I would be joining it. I can't think if any club I've been at that did this though.

A fair point and one I accept (though it does increase the percentage foe weekend only golfers).

I would look at it slightly from another point of view though. At my old club, at least one day a weekend was taken up by a men's competition. That immediately closes the course at prime times to all lady members. A unified competition opens the course to all.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And that last line is the kicker.

That is about as elitist a post as I have read and remains equally patronising.

The elite are not under represented, they can enter every competition save from those that it is deemed OK to exclude them based on age and gender. The elite are perfectly well represented.

Actually, no, the handicap system is what makes golf inclusive allowing people of all ages and disablities to compete. Your implication that golf would be better without handicaps would reduce the playing numbers massively. Plus who is to say that a higher handicapper will not have the round of their life and win. It can happen.

Still, stay on the elitist bandwagon, I am happy dumbing down the course.

There are 4 competitions i can’t enter or win playing off a low HC

There is one competition where someone over 10 can’t play - the KO

Yes the scratch and low golfers are under represented when it comes to a competition where it’s the best golfer winning

The handicap system allows someone to win who hasn’t played the best golf that day and is easily manipulated- it’s nowhere near a fair system to provide any balance

The HC system also stops people looking to improve their game because they know it will be harder to compete the lower you get

 

[RichA]

What did he shoot? There is just no way that would ever happen at my place. Even on their worse days at least one of the the low guys would be shooting no more than +4.

82, which was score diff 8 on the day. We're a small, inclusive club. There would have been 36 qualifying entrants of mixed ability.
All the good players blew up. It's the kind of course where, in the summer, a great drive you'd expect to find can easily roll into the punishing long grass never to be found. If that happens in a strokeplay comp, I reckon most at ours would declare themselves "out" rather than going back to the tee box.
I think my point is that not all golf clubs are the same, so there isn't really one set of competition rules that suits every golf club.
I don't think I'd want to join a club that didn't at least give every member a chance to qualify for the biggest competition.
Different sport and different level, but it's the chance of an upset that gives the FA Cup it's magic. So why make the very lowest tier of local amateur golf in any way exclusive?

 

[Orikoru]

The HC system also stops people looking to improve their game because they know it will be harder to compete the lower you get

Well that's just complete rubbish. For 99% of golfers, simply having a handicap as a visual marker of their ability makes them want to get it as low as they can.

 

[GB72]

There are 4 competitions i can’t enter or win playing off a low HC

There is one competition where someone over 10 can’t play - the KO

Yes the scratch and low golfers are under represented when it comes to a competition where it’s the best golfer winning

The handicap system allows someone to win who hasn’t played the best golf that day and is easily manipulated- it’s nowhere near a fair system to provide any balance

The HC system also stops people looking to improve their game because they know it will be harder to compete the lower you get

And there we have the final number for 'bingo'- abandon handicaps, make a sport with an already elitist image, elitist on another level.

Golf is about getting as many people out on the course competing as possible. Yes, the lowest gross on the day should be crowned the club champion but everyone should have a shot at it. Hell, lets make the FA Cup and the League Cup for just the Premiership as only those clubs can win it. Lets kick the smaller leagues out of European competition as well, after all, they are just Dumbing Down football.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And there we have the final number for 'bingo'- abandon handicaps, make a sport with an already elitist image, elitist on another level.

Golf is about getting as many people out on the course competing as possible. Yes, the lowest gross on the day should be crowned the club champion but everyone should have a shot at it. Hell, lets make the FA Cup and the League Cup for just the Premiership as only those clubs can win it. Lets kick the smaller leagues out of European competition as well, after all, they are just Dumbing Down football.

Abandon HC’s ? When did that get said ?

why bring professional sport into it ?

Can a 20 plus HC try and qualify for the Open ?

Can a village cricket team try and play in the T20 blast


Does your local village football team get given 20 goals head start to compete on even level

When it’s the FA Cup is it the best team that wins or the team with a handicap

In your local cricket or rugby team do they have teams at differing levels ? With only the very best at the club representing the club in major competitions

why shouldn’t golf clubs have limited competitions depending on HC ?

Ballots are used all over the sport to ensure that some competitions it’s the very best in the sport that are winning and competing in the competitions that are looking for the best golfer. Why is that such a bad thing

 

[SteveW86]

Well that's just complete rubbish. For 99% of golfers, simply having a handicap as a visual marker of their ability makes them want to get it as low as they can.

I'm not sure thats true for 99% of golfers. What would you say the split is between those who actively practise to get as low a handicap as possible versus those who just play on a weekend and their handicap just is what it is.

I'd go as far as saying the worse you are at golf, and therefore higher handicap, the easier it is to win a club handicap competition.

 

[GB72]

Abandon HC’s ? When did that get said ?

why bring professional sport into it ?

Can a 20 plus HC try and qualify for the Open ?

Can a village cricket team try and play in the T20 blast


Does your local village football team get given 20 goals head start to compete on even level

When it’s the FA Cup is it the best team that wins or the team with a handicap

In your local cricket or rugby team do they have teams at differing levels ? With only the very best at the club representing the club in major competitions

why shouldn’t golf clubs have limited competitions depending on HC ?

Ballots are used all over the sport to ensure that some competitions it’s the very best in the sport that are winning and competing in the competitions that are looking for the best golfer. Why is that such a bad thing

And there is the point missed. They have diferent levels but all have equall access to the facilities. That is why competitions have divisions.

My comparision is fair., you are saying that people of a lesser abiliity, those that dumb down the game, should not be allowed to compete in competition with the elite. So those you deem as having no chance of winning should not get the chance to play with the best.

As for my rugby club, we all played the same club on the same day but in teams so, basically golf competition divisions. But, you know what, we have dragged 3rd team players out of their match to fill a gap in the firsts and they have often excelled rather than dumb the game down. Still, overall, rugby clubs were about the enjoyment of rugby and bein all in it together rather than dividng the elites and the dummies.

There is nothing wrong with looking for the best golfer, there is something wrong with excluding people from trying.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

LP is right (as much as it pains me to say it ). The handicap system is just giving the illusion that 2 players of differing skill levels are competing.

If everyone genuinely tried their best to get as low as possible it wouldn’t be so bad. BUT, there are a lot of people who despite claiming they want to get better, do very little to do so, and a lot of people who couldn’t be happier when they go up.

I had a similar conversation with a guy I played in our knockout a few weeks ago when he said that his short game was balancing out the distance he was losing to me off the tee and making it a close game. I said, no, the shots I’m giving you are.

I shot around 78 that day, he shot in the mid 90s. In reality the match would have been over after 10 or 11 holes were it not for the shots I was giving him.

Now, I’ve been in his position playing guys lower than me, and I always feel a bit of a fraud winning a hole with a shot. But that’s just the way I see golf. I’m really only interested in my gross score. I couldn’t give a monkeys about nett or stableford points.

As long as the majority of players are happy with the pretence that handicaps allow players of all abilities to compete, then happy days.

 

[Orikoru]

I'm not sure thats true for 99% of golfers. What would you say the split is between those who actively practise to get as low a handicap as possible versus those who just play on a weekend and their handicap just is what it is.

I'd go as far as saying the worse you are at golf, and therefore higher handicap, the easier it is to win a club handicap competition.

I never said anything about practising. I want my handicap to be lower, doesn't mean I particularly do anything about it. I wish I could make myself not care about it. I was disputing Phil's point where he generalised that people deliberately don't get it down so they can win more competitions. Of course it is easier to win the higher you are, that's just obvious.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And there is the point missed. They have diferent levels but all have equall access to the facilities. That is why competitions have divisions.

My comparision is fair., you are saying that people of a lesser abiliity, those that dumb down the game, should not be allowed to compete in competition with the elite. So those you deem as having no chance of winning should not get the chance to play with the best.

As for my rugby club, we all played the same club on the same day but in teams so, basically golf competition divisions. But, you know what, we have dragged 3rd team players out of their match to fill a gap in the firsts and they have often excelled rather than dumb the game down. Still, overall, rugby clubs were about the enjoyment of rugby and bein all in it together rather than dividng the elites and the dummies.

There is nothing wrong with looking for the best golfer, there is something wrong with excluding people from trying.

Players aren’t “excluded” from trying

A player can spend a long time trying and getting himself to the level of ability to see if he can be the best golfer - no one is “excluded” from the facilities.

Should be bin off the high handicap events then as well ?

You didn’t seem to have an issue with events that I can’t enter only concentrating on the scratch events

Should every club open up their scratch events to every handicap ? Have the 54 handicappers playing in the Sunningdale 4somes as an example

Allow and handicap to enter Open Qualifying?

Enter the county scratch championships

A club champs scratch comp is 36 holes in one day - how do they limit the numbers to be able to fit them in ? First come first serve ? How does that find the best player in the club - should the 28 handicapper get in before the +1 ?


Why can’t there be one competition in a club where it’s looking to find the best golfer without handicaps be balloted and limited to ensure the club has the best chance of finding out who the best is

1 day in 365 days

 

[Orikoru]

Why can’t there be one competition in a club where it’s looking to find the best golfer without handicaps be balloted and limited to ensure the club has the best chance of finding out who the best is

1 day in 365 days

This logic doesn't make any sense. How does excluding a few 20 handicappers make it any more or less likely to find out who the best player is?

 

[sweaty sock]

The handicap system is wonderful and lets everyone play together no matter there commitment or talent. Golf probably wouldn't even exist without it.

But to say a once a year comp is exclusionary, because you have to qualify for (by getting your handicap down) and play without head start?

Thats just pandering.

 

[Backache]

It is but it is unnecessarily restrictive. You have a handicap system, you have handicaps for each tee, let everyone play. As with most comps I have entered, crown the lowest gross score as the champion but let everyone who wants to have a shot.

Why would opening comps to all reduce entrants, are you against playing a Saturday morning comp with the ladies or the seniors. Would that stop you playing.

This is different in that everyone pays the same to use the facilities and so access should be even to all. I see no reason to encourage segregation or to discourage higher handicappers from competing but, hey, that is dumbing down the sport.

Sport is a competitiion, so let everyone compete.

Everyone has access to our competitions but part of that access is developing the requisite skill. If you can't be bothered tough.

 

[RichA]

Can a 20 plus HC try and qualify for the Open ?
Can a village cricket team try and play in the T20 blast

But we aren't talking about The Open or The T20 Blast.
We are talking about championship day at local recreational golf clubs. Nobody seriously believes it decides their club's best golfer - it's just who happens to have the best round(s) on that particular day.
A better analogy would be requiring proof of Mensa membership to enter the pub quiz.