Old Skier
Tour Winner
More to the point, you would need 156 available so all players/caddies have the same opportunity.
Molinari DQ
- Thread starter Imurg
- Start date
Hardly doing the image of good any good when non-golfers read about such things happening. It does seem a daft rule
chrisd
Major Champion
They certainly moved players and caddies from green to tee by cart on some of the holes in the world Matchplay at the London Club last year so they can modify the rule if necessary
Colin L
Tour Winner
Yes, of course. As any such rule is a Condition of Competition, it is entirely at the discretion of the Committee to have it or not, and what it allows/prohibits. It could allow only players whose surname begins with Q to use a cart.
palindromicbob
Tour Winner
Surely there is an argument that they could have waived the DQ under 33-7 and allowed him to continues with the 2 stroke penalty applied.
MadAdey
Money List Winner
You really do not appear to make any point, well you certainly do not explain your opinions on this matter.
The caddie is part of his team. Molinari is allowed to accept advise because of this, so if the caddie makes a mistake and breaks the rules then Molinari has to accept the consequences. The problem isn't the rules, it's the caddie not knowing what I would have thought was a basic one for him. To that extent, don't blame the rules, blame the caddie that broke it.
bobmac
Major Champion
Does the punishment fit the 'crime'?
Quite simply, No!
Colin L
Tour Winner
Remember that the "crime" for which the penalty was a DQ was not that of the caddy hitching a lift on a cart. The penalty for that was 2 strokes. The player was disqualified for returning a wrong score.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Because he was unaware that a breach had occurred....
How can you call a penalty when you don't know that someone else has broken a rule for you?
This is a case where a fine for the caddy or a retrospective 2 shot penalty is the answer.
Forget that the caddy should have known the rule - of course he should.
But Emol didn't know that caddy had hitched a lift - how can he call it?
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
And the common sense application of that penalty would be to add the 2 shots and tell him why, leaving him in the competition. Molinari claims he didn't know, so I'd be interested to know how the Tour found out in order to DQ him. I'd say there's potentially a huge difference between returning a wrong score and knowingly returning a wrong score.
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/edoardo-molinari-disqualified-because-his-caddy-took-cart-tee
I agree, where a player has made an error within the rules which leads to an advantage or attempted advantage and breaches a rule then a dq is quite correct, that could also be the case when a caddy has made an error like too many clubs, incorrect score etc, but to ride on a buggy some distance behind has no correlation to any advantage being seeked and can't influence Molinari in any way so a dq is harsh and unjust.
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
Not as far as the rules are concerned. I'd guess 99% of such infringements are accidental.
Overall though, the facts are that the Player/Caddy are a team. The reason for the rule has been explained and is clear (ie it's not "daft"). The caddy broke it, the player, for whatever reason was unaware of the breach before returning his card.
Now, if someone pointed out to me after returning my card that something had happened that meant I should have had a two shot penalty at some point, assuming it's a clear cut case like this, I'd be saying "Oh dear, looks like I'm DQ then". I wouldn't be arguing that the committee should just add the penalty shots as that's not what the rules say.
Colin L
Tour Winner
That wouldn't be a common sense application of the rule under which he was disqualified (Rule 6-5d) You are confusing the two separate events: the breach (riding on a cart) which attracted a 2 stroke penalty and the submission of a card where the score recorded was lower than than the correct score because the penalty was not included.
You need to argue either that there should be no penalty for using the cart - in which case there would be no point in having the COC and we are back to the possibility of 156 carts charging around the course - or, that there should be no penalty for returning a score lower than the correct score - which would have to apply to all instances of a breach of rule coming to light after a card has been returned.
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Colin L
Tour Winner
See Decision 33-7/4.5
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-33,d33-7-4.5
I don't see the circumstances in Molinari's situation anywhere near those described in this Decision as meriting the waiving of a DQ. It seems to me a straightforward matter of a penalty of which the player was unaware and a score recorded at a hole lower than that taken as a result of not including the penalty.
BTatHome
Tour Winner
Y
Great post, I originally thought it was a dumb ruling but when broken down like this it makes a lot more sense.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
So to avoid any further confusion, how do you add the correct penalty to your scorecard, that you are responsible for returning, for an infringement that you know nothing about?
BTatHome
Tour Winner
With regard to the comments about daft rules and how poor it makes the game look, and how people will not want to be involved in it ..... well there are quite a few stupid rules in many sports, football showing up a few each weekend (how about the referee seeing a dreadful foul but not sending off a player ... even the rules after the game don't allow the guy to be punished). Doesn't seem to affect the take up, or viewing figures, of football does it?
Colin L
Tour Winner
You can't. You just get caught out if a breach of which you were unaware comes to light in some way after you have submitted your card.
bobmac
Major Champion
Like when a ball moves on the green by the wind and the player doesn't notice it?
