NR'd from a Medal - Thoughts?

IanM

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Regardless. They haven't followed reasonable procedures by
1) Not asking him for comment before chucking him out the comp.
2) Taking only one testimony from a player a good distance away. Not asking player or playing partners for comment.

If he resigns from club, they'll take it as an admission of cheating. That will follow him around every club he subsequently joins.

As said previously. Give Club Committee written notice of dissatisfaction and state reasons. They have already admitted to the first one. If that doesn't work go to County and ensure the Club know legal action is a possibility.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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It’s as if the Committee didn’t fully appreciate the wider implications to the player of DQ’ing him for cheating. Such a course of action should surely be extremely rare and only done in the most compelling and incontrovertible circumstances. In this instance it seems the committee have acted as if what they were doing was limited to simple competition administration, when in fact the consequences are much wider and difficult for the player.

I sense a degree of self-importance in the person reporting the incident, something in my experience which is, I fear, not uncommon in ex-captains and committee members, plus perhaps also an element of a committee not really being strong enough in the face of that person‘s reporting, and rather cowing to his personal viewpoint and wishes.

And they have ended up with a total burach.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan

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The Thread says "NR'd" not "DQ'd"

Is that significant?
I also note in re-reading the original post describing the incident that ‘…two members one being a committee member see you move your ball on the 9th without marking spot or discussing with other players’

So not just the one persons word vs our poster.
 

MACM85

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I also note in re-reading the original post describing the incident that ‘…two members one being a committee member see you move your ball on the 9th without marking spot or discussing with other players’

So not just the one persons word vs our poster.
That is a valid point. In the email discussion the player knows who the comittee member was who saw the alleged infringement but nothing about this second person.
 

Slab

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Is the fella who was NR'd/DQ'd left or right handed ?


edit: It obviously doesn’t actually have any bearing… but I was mulling what the witness could have seen from 130yards away that may be taken for a ball being moved (it seems clear he saw something)

Could a partial view of a white gloved hand moving twigs in the rough look anything like a ball movement from 130yrds?
 
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Neilds

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I also note in re-reading the original post describing the incident that ‘…two members one being a committee member see you move your ball on the 9th without marking spot or discussing with other players’

So not just the one persons word vs our poster.
I suspect that 2 people reported the incident, I can't believe that 2 people were looking across to an adjacent fairway at exactly the same time to see someone move their ball. Possibly one 'saw' it and then mentioned it to his partner?
 

doublebogey7

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It’s as if the Committee didn’t fully appreciate the wider implications to the player of DQ’ing him for cheating. Such a course of action should surely be extremely rare and only done in the most compelling and incontrovertible circumstances. In this instance it seems the committee have acted as if what they were doing was limited to simple competition administration, when in fact the consequences are much wider and difficult for the player.

I sense a degree of self-importance in the person reporting the incident, something in my experience which is, I fear, not uncommon in ex-captains and committee members, plus perhaps also an element of a committee not really being strong enough in the face of that person‘s reporting, and rather cowing to his personal viewpoint and wishes.

And they have ended up with a total burach.

As I said in ealier posts they can't even get the simple stuff right, so there was no chance of therm dealing correctly with this incident.
 

Whereditgo

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I just can't believe that anyone could say with any degree of certainty that a ball was moved when they are standing 130 yards away.

In a club match last summer an opponent accused me of pressing something down behind my ball, he was stood maybe 10 yards away, what he actually saw was me approach my ball and lean forward to see my identification marks on the far side of the ball, so my right foot was placed around 300mm behind the ball as I leant forwards and probably not even directly behind the ball. The guy was adamant I had pressed something down immediately behind the ball, bearing in mind this was during one of the driest summers on record on fairways that are never watered - you would have needed a steam roller to press anything down :ROFLMAO: The guy got it wrong, from 10 yards away!
 

clubchamp98

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For those that have asked here is an image of the view point from the 12th tee to the 9th mound in question

PXL-20230418-163040418-1.jpg


The spot where the chap was on the right handside of the mound around 2 feet up from the bottom and in line with the second tree in from the green water shed.
By the look of the rough I would be suprized if you could see the ball from 130yds.

seems to me this witness got it wrong but just won’t admit it. Or at best thought he saw but is wrong.
Committee is woeful for just taking his word for it.
at least get the basic procedures correct.

Go to the County that’s what your fees are for.
 

Beezerk

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By the look of the rough I would be suprized if you could see the ball from 130yds.

seems to me this witness got it wrong but just won’t admit it. Or at best thought he saw but is wrong.
Committee is woeful for just taking his word for it.
at least get the basic procedures correct.

Go to the County that’s what your fees are for.

Thought he saw something and moaned about it to his pp's during the round, when he entered his score he saw the “cheat” was winning by a shot or two and took action claiming the win in the process. The fact the guy who called it out then went on to win doesn’t sit right with me at all. We don’t know the truth but for me he’s cheated a win by fabricating a situation where the other guy gets dq’d.
 

MACM85

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Thought he saw something and moaned about it to his pp's during the round, when he entered his score he saw the “cheat” was winning by a shot or two and took action claiming the win in the process. The fact the guy who called it out then went on to win doesn’t sit right with me at all. We don’t know the truth but for me he’s cheated a win by fabricating a situation where the other guy gets dq’d.

The guy who reported it was in Div 2 and the claim of moving the ball didn't affect him at all.

The old captain from a couple of seasons ago was the benefactor
 

Scoobiesnax

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MACM85 - Panorama needs to be brought in to investigate me thinks! My new favourite thread, suspense is killing me :D

Genuinely hope your mate gets this sorted, as I'd be livid if this happened to me.
 

Swango1980

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Does your friend have any allies / friends within the club? Just thinking of the politics of it all. He wins a competition, then gets DQed. Bound to be discussions and gossip amongst members. They'll be asking what happened. Even if the reason is not published, those questions are bound to be asked informally by members to those on the Committee, and then the reason of him moving the ball (cheating) will get out there, and spread amongst members.

If he was part of a big group of friends he knew, then of course he can tell them his side, and then his side of the story will inevitably spread amongst members who play in comps. If he knows very few people, then he'll probably just become the guy known for being DQed for cheating, and many will never ever trust him. Some may be quick to accuse him of cheating at the most minor of instances, even when they simply don't understand the rule themselves, or he accidentally breaches a rule without realising it.

Very difficult, maybe impossible, to get rid of the label of cheat once it has stuck.

Assuming he is comfortable he didn't cheat (and he'll 100% know the answer to this anyway), it seems he should absolutely appeal this decision, including the clubs decision not to allow an appeal. And, for his reputation, discussing this with the County seems a great idea if the Club's procedures are unfairly damaging him.
 

Jason.H

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I witnessed this exact scenario just the other week. A guy found his ball in the deep stuff, clearly it was unplayable he had a quick look at his playing partner who was busy sorting himself out then he swiftly moved his ball about 3 feet. I didn’t recognise the guy so maybe he was a visitor and not in the comp. And for all I know he may of took a 2 club length drop and penalty applied .
 
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