LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

It’s getting worse

The last 4 days were horrific on social media

It’s been a major - it should transcend above any other tour , when someone is playing there it doesn’t matter what tour they are on

If anything the major showed that these guys need to playing together on one main tour

LIV’s big “weapon” is those social media accounts , they are relentless, and who knows how many are associated or paid by the tour but they are being countered by a good number of accounts on the other side that have been created and it’s not a good look for either

For many now most won’t bother to watch golf until the US Open , that’s the state of tour golf now

The biggest problem that golf has right now is the reluctance to accept the new status of men pro golf.

There are now way more opportunities to watch golf, than there ever has been - it has never been better.

Next event I'll be purposefully watching will be LIV Houston - but for those that want their golf fix there's plenty of options every single weekend - and on top of that, there's a fantastic choice on You Tube that just keeps on improving.

If people are hacked off because one tour isn't as good as it once was, cry me a river.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It’s getting worse

The last 4 days were horrific on social media

It’s been a major - it should transcend above any other tour , when someone is playing there it doesn’t matter what tour they are on

If anything the major showed that these guys need to playing together on one main tour

LIV’s big “weapon” is those social media accounts , they are relentless, and who knows how many are associated or paid by the tour but they are being countered by a good number of accounts on the other side that have been created and it’s not a good look for either

For many now most won’t bother to watch golf until the US Open , that’s the state of tour golf now

Again, you are looking at it from a pro PGA tour perspective. You are not seeing the vitriol and digs constantly made towards LIV. I don't actually watch LIV, but they have the right to exist.

It's become like party politics, tribal, with neither party willing to bend or be polite to each other.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Again, you are looking at it from a pro PGA tour perspective. You are not seeing the vitriol and digs constantly made towards LIV. I don't actually watch LIV, but they have the right to exist.

It's become like party politics, tribal, with neither party willing to bend or be polite to each other.

Of course they have a right to exist - anyone can come along and create a league etc

But that doesn’t mean they have a right to have it how they want outside their own tour

Hence the immediate posts about ranking points , entry into majors etc

If they want to play a part in that area of the sport then they follow the same path as all the other tours.

And I’m far from “pro PGAT”

It seems that when someone doesn’t like LIV or what they have done to the sport it’s immediately seen to be a “pro PGAT” when that’s as far from the truth as you can get - lm no fan of that tour as well and what that’s done to golf over the years - especially in Europe

But the last 4 days should have been about the major not LIV or PGAT and social media has been a mess from both

 

[BubbaP]

Current positions of Liv Golfers who made the Cut at the PGA Championship

Surprised to see Brooks fall away yesterday.

FWIW, personally I can do without those kinds of lists and stories. Was a week to enjoy the tournament and put aside the who plays where stuff for me.

But I acknowledge many major golf media outlets were doing similar

 

[BubbaP]

It’s getting worse

The last 4 days were horrific on social media

It’s been a major - it should transcend above any other tour , when someone is playing there it doesn’t matter what tour they are on

If anything the major showed that these guys need to playing together on one main tour

LIV’s big “weapon” is those social media accounts , they are relentless, and who knows how many are associated or paid by the tour but they are being countered by a good number of accounts on the other side that have been created and it’s not a good look for either

For many now most won’t bother to watch golf until the US Open , that’s the state of tour golf now

As LT mentioned, it became tribal. I think most fair minded people can see where that originated from.
I'd liken it to the school bully and the recipient coming back after the holidays a bit bigger & with more confidence and pushing back. Reap what you sow.
I don't like it either (from either 'side'), but oddly seem to manage to keep up with events without being aware of most of it. Yet to be convinced you don't have to go looking for it, for it to become a problem.

My guess is you were more 'pro status quo', than PGAT specifically - but many posts do seem to slip towards 'anti LIV' IMO so can understand LT's post.

Not sure about the watching golf bit. For those firmly in one camp or another, they have options.
But if many come back for the US Open then maybe that indicates the faux rivalry does actually 'work'

 

[Fore Right]

The majors are already looking at how they are going to incorporate Liv golfers to their events as exemptions of top players start to run out.
The PGAs solution this time was special invitations.

Have Liv golfers added to or taken away from the majors since their tour was created ?
Well they have won one, contended in many and been visible in all in some way.

Brysons exemptions from his US Open win run out next year.
Anyone who thinks the Majors dont want BDC in their field is deluding themselves.
The guy is box office, brings energy and excitement to every event when he contends.

Even the most critical of him and Liv from the golf channel to no laying up have said the game of golf needs the Bryson Dechambeau's of the world and that the PGA tour misses characters like him.

The Golf Channel podcast said "The PGA Tour is like a Marvel film with no villains"

They just need to swallow some pride on both sides and bring it all back together for the good of the game

 

[SteveW86]

I'm not sure many would argue that having the likes of BDC, DJ, Koepka, Rahm would take away or reduce the quality of a Major, these guys are or have been for the last 5-10 years comfortably top 20 in the world players. The problem is they have moved to a tour which doesnt get ranking points, so once their exemptions run out they will be relying on special invites (as it currently stands) to attend the Majors. It would be interesting if they went a couple of seasons with no results to really speak of in the Majors, to see if those special invitations were still handed out.

In 5 years I cant see there not being a direct qualification route into the Majors from LIV rankings, but how we get there and what it looks like I'm not sure anyone really knows atm.

 

[Orikoru]

I genuinely think that if the situation is the same in two, three years and these top LIV players' exemptions are largely running out, then the majors will look at the criteria and get them in another way. It would just be so baffling if they didn't. Would be cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

But I acknowledge many major golf media outlets were doing similar

Golf monthly are permanently pushing this stuff on SM.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

As LT mentioned, it became tribal. I think most fair minded people can see where that originated from.
I'd liken it to the school bully and the recipient coming back after the holidays a bit bigger & with more confidence and pushing back. Reap what you sow.
I don't like it either (from either 'side'), but oddly seem to manage to keep up with events without being aware of most of it. Yet to be convinced you don't have to go looking for it, for it to become a problem.

My guess is you were more 'pro status quo', than PGAT specifically - but many posts do seem to slip towards 'anti LIV' IMO so can understand LT's post.

Not sure about the watching golf bit. For those firmly in one camp or another, they have options.
But if many come back for the US Open then maybe that indicates the faux rivalry does actually 'work'

For me a lot of the “issues” or reasons for the start of LIV were down to Norman’s issue with tours , he wanted to create some sort of tour where more golfers go around and play in other areas - and he managed to get a tour going using Saudi money

He then creates a tour based mainly in the US which will of course create issues , it would be no different to a rival football league starting up in Europe and looking to get teams to pay with lots of money

because money talks then there will be players that go across

I think if a new world tour was started using events outside the US and then allowing anyone to qualify over time we could have a situation where players play on the main but once a month play on an “extended” WGC type events that are co sanctioned between all the governing bodies and they include top players from each tour

That would have allowed all of them to work together but because of a lot of the cloak and dagger stuff that went on it was always going to be a rival tour and we have the situation we are in now

I don’t really like most of the events on the PGAT ( courses are a bit boring ) , I must prefer the stuff on the ET

But I’ll mainly always watch the majors and I think for many that’s the same

Outside the US I don’t think the week to week tours have too much influence on the sport at the grass roots level , thankfully that’s done by the clubs and the pros

the money will never sit right with me , and that Includes things like PIP or shares from the new US business thing - it’s not making the game any better , it’s just making rich people richer and for me the format on LIV is horrific

And unfortunately I don’t see it getting much better soon

 

[Fore Right]

Reading replies on social media and golf media editorials/podcasts about Bryson really seems to show a shift in attitude towards him.

Trying to understand why he has gone from being so unpopular to being appreciated ?

Is it because he has made himself a lot more accessible through his You Tube channel and Liv Video content

 

[Orikoru]

Reading replies on social media and golf media editorials/podcasts about Bryson really seems to show a shift in attitude towards him.

Trying to understand why he has gone from being so unpopular to being appreciated ?

Is it because he has made himself a lot more accessible through his You Tube channel and Liv Video content

A small amount is because he's stopped saying silly things in press conferences I think - grown up a little perhaps. But largely it has to be the YouTube content. The videos he's put out on there have been excellent. And he has 600k subscribers so it hasn't gone unnoticed.

 

[Fore Right]

Maybe he is just misunderstood.
This is pretty cool in the midst of the heat of a major last round making sure the kid got the ball that was intended for him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792368274430476466

 

[4LEX]

The majors are already looking at how they are going to incorporate Liv golfers to their events as exemptions of top players start to run out.
The PGAs solution this time was special invitations.

Have Liv golfers added to or taken away from the majors since their tour was created ?
Well they have won one, contended in many and been visible in all in some way.

Brysons exemptions from his US Open win run out next year.
Anyone who thinks the Majors dont want BDC in their field is deluding themselves.
The guy is box office, brings energy and excitement to every event when he contends.

Even the most critical of him and Liv from the golf channel to no laying up have said the game of golf needs the Bryson Dechambeau's of the world and that the PGA tour misses characters like him.

The Golf Channel podcast said "The PGA Tour is like a Marvel film with no villains"

They just need to swallow some pride on both sides and bring it all back together for the good of the game

Considering the quality of the players LIV bought, their record in the majors is actually pretty poor. They were meant to be hoovering up the cream of the crop instead they've managed 1 win in 10?

Agree with you on BDC, box office and one of the few players who you'd tune in to watch. Personality, pushing the limits and plays attacking golf.

 

[wjemather]

Considering the quality of the players LIV bought, their record in the majors is actually pretty poor. They were meant to be hoovering up the cream of the crop instead they've managed 1 win in 10?

Only 8 majors have been played since LIV started; 1 of them preceded the signing of Dechambeau, Koepka, Reed and others; 2 of them preceded the signing of Smith, Niemann and others; 6 of them preceded the signing of Rahm, Hatton and others.

Let's say LIV had "hoovered up" another 20 of the world's top players on day 1 (say McIlroy, Hovland, Cantlay, Morikawa, Homa, Theegala, Fleetwood, Matsuyama, Young, Day, Thomas, Spieth, Tom Kim, Burns, Finau, Zalatoris, Lowry, Fowler, Scott, Rose) - they'd still only have a combined 1 major win (as LIV players).

 

[Mel Smooth]

I think most LIV fans would concede that they'd have like to have seen some stronger performances in a couple of the majors - but the players that do get in, are doing Ok. Dean Burmester has qualified for next years PGA on the back of his 12th place, plenty of players making cuts etc. Majors are tough, and with 16 in attendance at Valhalla, - how many would you reasonably expect to make the top 10? Personally I'd have hoped for 2, they didn't quite get there, but one of them did come very close to taking it down.

The event was undoubtedly better for them being present though - even whether it be Brysons success or Rahm's failure - it all added to the weekend.

 

[4LEX]

Only 8 majors have been played since LIV started; 1 of them preceded the signing of Dechambeau, Koepka, Reed and others; 2 of them preceded the signing of Smith, Niemann and others; 6 of them preceded the signing of Rahm, Hatton and others.

Let's say LIV had "hoovered up" another 20 of the world's top players on day 1 (say McIlroy, Hovland, Cantlay, Morikawa, Homa, Theegala, Fleetwood, Matsuyama, Young, Day, Thomas, Spieth, Tom Kim, Burns, Finau, Zalatoris, Lowry, Fowler, Scott, Rose) - they'd still only have a combined 1 major win (as LIV players).

Still a poor record given the money spent on recruiting the best.

Interesting data about the Top 20 though. I wonder if the whole debacle has had an negative impact on all of the top golfers? Or is the sample size too small? More talent emerging on the PGA? Possibly a bit of everything.

 

[4LEX]

I think most LIV fans would concede that they'd have like to have seen some stronger performances in a couple of the majors - but the players that do get in, are doing Ok. Dean Burmester has qualified for next years PGA on the back of his 12th place, plenty of players making cuts etc. Majors are tough, and with 16 in attendance at Valhalla, - how many would you reasonably expect to make the top 10? Personally I'd have hoped for 2, they didn't quite get there, but one of them did come very close to taking it down.

The event was undoubtedly better for them being present though - even whether it be Brysons success or Rahm's failure - it all added to the weekend.

It is good to have LIV players involved in the majors. I like to see the best compete and the only time that happens is in the majors these days.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Eugenio Chacarra finding some form over in Dallas to sail through qualifying to the US Open - Sergio just missed out on a top 11 spot but takes the 1st alternate spot.

Meronk is also qualified due to his Race to Dubai ranking.

 

[BubbaP]

Not sure if it is a sign of thawing at all, but Pieters is playing in his homeland this week.