Why Is Golf On The Decline?

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Golf is in decline because income disparity rather than income is in an expansionary period.

Working class golf was a product of post WWII prosperity.

I'm no UK expert, but post-industrial America is a significantly lesser nation than was post WWII America,

and working class golf is disappearing.

 

[fundy]

I'm trying to figure out if hedge hoping might create issues when we get playing again.
Could make a mockery of spacing out tee times and potentially cause a bit of aggro.
Most places have a few ardent hedge hoppers and most do get in others way.
Could muck up contact tracing unless that is a mobile app, but some of the hoppers at our place aren't going to be on a mobile app.
Be interesting to see what final guidelines golf settles on when it comes back initially.

so youre saying I should turn the phone off before I fence hop, cheers

 

[Doon frae Troon]

No, I’ve done various ones many times when others are out playing.
You just pick and choose depending on what’s available.

OK I shall concede….course is very quiet to allow you to hop about at ease.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I'm trying to figure out if hedge hoping might create issues when we get playing again.
Could make a mockery of spacing out tee times and potentially cause a bit of aggro.
Most places have a few ardent hedge hoppers and most do get in others way.
Could muck up contact tracing unless that is a mobile app, but some of the hoppers at our place aren't going to be on a mobile app.
Be interesting to see what final guidelines golf settles on when it comes back initially.

Good point.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

OK I shall concede….course is very quiet to allow you to hop about at ease.

Well done ?

 

[Chico84]

For what it’s worth I can relay my relatively recent experience in becoming a ‘golfer’, having really only taken up the sport less than a year ago. I sit in that bracket that has been mentioned a few times - coming to the end of playing rugby (at any reasonable standard anyway), mid 30s, wondering how to stay involved in sport and also looking for a new challenge.

I have a number of mates who used to play golf because they were introduced by family members when they were younger. My family isn’t really a golfing family and whilst my grandfather did play it wasn’t something we as kids were involved in.

I always thought of golf as a hard sport to take up, requiring a lot of investment in time and equipment. I also perceived it as a bit stuffy, something that was only enhanced when one of my friends took me to his club that he’d been a member of since he was a lad and where he’d had to play the club captain before being allowed to join. I was under strict instruction to wear chinos and polo top and had to borrow golf shoes. I had to turn off my phone too. It all felt a bit over the top for what was essentially just whacking some balls around a very empty winter course.

I didn’t consider taking up the sport seriously for another ten years when, on a whim, I went along to the work good day with a rag tag bag of old clubs. It was a pretty relaxed affair and it was here that I realised that most players really aren’t that great, and most people I know really aren’t into the whole stuffy golf traditions thing. I enjoyed myself. Following that I started taking some beginners lessons, bought some new clubs and have gone on from there.

I’m a pay and play golfer but would like to join a club at some point. For me, membership is a significant expense. A lot of clubs make it pretty hard to find the cost details on their websites and certainly don’t advertise what a monthly payment would cost. Many do still have joining fees as well. Any that do are immediately off my list as I just can’t afford that.

Having a young family also makes time a challenge. I personally don’t think a 4 hour round is a problem - if I’m playing golf I will carve out the required time. But what I would love to be able to do is encourage my wife to come down to the club. She’s never going to play but if there were a gym, kids club or crèche, pool, that kind of thing then I would have much less trouble finding time to play and I’d be happier to pay more for my membership too.

In my 30s I’ve got really into it whilst friends who played when they were younger have given up entirely or play very irregularly.

TLDR
- clubs should have more facilities to attract a wider demographic than just middle aged or older guys. How can they attract families and encourage people to be there more often and for longer?
- clubs need to relax the rules around clothing, mobile phones in the club house, etc. Just ask people to be respectful of each other and police it that way would work well.
- make membership costs more transparent and properly advertise monthly payment plans.

 

[Wolf]

TLDR
- clubs should have more facilities to attract a wider demographic than just middle aged or older guys. How can they attract families and encourage people to be there more often and for longer?
- clubs need to relax the rules around clothing, mobile phones in the club house, etc. Just ask people to be respectful of each other and police it that way would work well.
- make membership costs more transparent and properly advertise monthly payment plans.

Pretty much 3 of the top 5 things Slumbers and Pelley mentioned in the podcasts i listened to and said as a result would be a greater uptake and create a better community environment.. Won't happen though.

 

[DanFST]

imagjne telling someone new that you can’t change your shoes in the car park. Why would they want to play?

 

[Chico84]

1. Not ever going to happen.
Purpose built leisure type clubs with golf courses attached may have creche facilities, but golf clubs aren't going to do that.
There are loads of younger guys playing, nobody is just targeting middle age or older guys.

2. Dress rules most places are already very relaxed. A casual pair of more or less anything except jeans to play in, plus a polo, is hardly strict. Many many places allow jeans in the the clubhouse now.
I'm not sure I've ever been in a place where the phone has to be "off". There are places where they request you to not let it ring loudly and talk on the phone away from the socialising area, but that's it.

3. I recently investigated about 10 golf clubs to join, 8 clearly have the prices on their website and 2 don't. One is Moor Park which is high end and a few thousand a year, the other is Crown so enough said. I don't get what you say about the monthly cost, it's normally one twelfth of the year plus a small percentage extra. Some may vary but you can get an idea.

It seems like the place you're referring to isn't representative of the whole, many places are much more progressive than they used to be.

I’ll try not to get too wound up by your response, but I will say that the way you systematically dismissed my views is somewhat indicative of the issues at hand. I had thought that as someone who has more recent experience of looking in from outside than most members here I might have offered an objective view from a part of the audience golf is seeking to attract. Perhaps I was mistaken in your case. Nonetheless...

1. It may not happen but then what will happen to the courses not keeping up in the future? Fewer players = fewer subs = fewer courses. Those with a genuine USP in a declining market will prevail. As for the young lads playing, will they continue to play when they settle down with families/need to focus on their careers, etc? My experience suggests not. I’m merely looking at how you can avoid that drop in players at a certain stage in life.

2. I agree that dress codes do seem to be relaxing more and more, and this is a good thing. However, the way it is often communicated doesn’t appeal to many - usually a list of what can and can’t be worn. Simply saying something along the lines of ‘smart casual is allowed’ should suffice. As for mobile phones, most clubs I’ve seen have pretty specific rules on where you can and can’t use them. Again, a common sense approach where respectful use that doesn’t impinge on others’ amenity should be adequate.

3. There is still the lingering impression that many clubs do make the costs aspect not particularly obvious. Most clubs I have seen do not explicitly mention direct debit payment, requiring you to enquire if you want to pay that way. Why not just put it out on the website with the monthly cost clearly stated, including any DD fees? Where joining fees are required there never seems to be an approach to paying for this except as a lump sum. Your research may differ from mine, and perhaps Surrey (where I’ve mainly been looking) has more of a traditional view in certain circles, but I disagree that this doesn’t discourage people from becoming members. I can think of five people in my immediate friendship group who are specifically put off joining a club, and therefore don’t actually play as much as they might, for this very reason.

Apologies for the slight rant but these are genuine perceptions that the game should address if it wants to remain relevant.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

imagjne telling someone new that you can’t change your shoes in the car park. Why would they want to play?

If you want to play, someone saying you can’t change your shoes in the car park, won’t change your mind.

 

[SammmeBee]

I’ll try not to get too wound up by your response, but I will say that the way you systematically dismissed my views is somewhat indicative of the issues at hand. I had thought that as someone who has more recent experience of looking in from outside than most members here I might have offered an objective view from a part of the audience golf is seeking to attract. Perhaps I was mistaken in your case. Nonetheless...

1. It may not happen but then what will happen to the courses not keeping up in the future? Fewer players = fewer subs = fewer courses. Those with a genuine USP in a declining market will prevail. As for the young lads playing, will they continue to play when they settle down with families/need to focus on their careers, etc? My experience suggests not. I’m merely looking at how you can avoid that drop in players at a certain stage in life.

2. I agree that dress codes do seem to be relaxing more and more, and this is a good thing. However, the way it is often communicated doesn’t appeal to many - usually a list of what can and can’t be worn. Simply saying something along the lines of ‘smart casual is allowed’ should suffice. As for mobile phones, most clubs I’ve seen have pretty specific rules on where you can and can’t use them. Again, a common sense approach where respectful use that doesn’t impinge on others’ amenity should be adequate.

3. There is still the lingering impression that many clubs do make the costs aspect not particularly obvious. Most clubs I have seen do not explicitly mention direct debit payment, requiring you to enquire if you want to pay that way. Why not just put it out on the website with the monthly cost clearly stated, including any DD fees? Where joining fees are required there never seems to be an approach to paying for this except as a lump sum. Your research may differ from mine, and perhaps Surrey (where I’ve mainly been looking) has more of a traditional view in certain circles, but I disagree that this doesn’t discourage people from becoming members. I can think of five people in my immediate friendship group who are specifically put off joining a club, and therefore don’t actually play as much as they might, for this very reason.

Apologies for the slight rant but these are genuine perceptions that the game should address if it wants to remain relevant.

1. There needs to be less clubs

2. Could define ‘smart casual’ please

3. Golf Clubs are not gyms....call, email or send a pigeon and ask - maybe even pop in and speak to them, they’ll probably give you a free round with some members to see if you like it (and they like you of course!)......

 

[Chico84]

Oh, do you only want replies that agree with you? ?‍

You saying things like, "direct debit isn't mentioned, you have to ask".... Well just ask then. What's difficult about that?
Often it is mentioned.

Joining fees are often payable monthly, it takes about 3 seconds to ask if that is possible.

Yes, people don't want others yabbering away loudly on their phone, if we have to chat on the phone we just nip outside the door or on the balcony or whatever. This would REALLY stop you enjoying a sport would it?

So you agree that dress codes are more relaxed but somehow you're wound up by a little list making it clear what the guidelines are... That's loony.
"Smart casual" is not the same to everyone, a list makes things much clearer.

I’m not suggesting that you need to agree with me but the way your original response was incredibly dismissive just demonstrates how people are not willing to consider alternative views, especially of those who might otherwise consider taking up the game. You continue to prove that point. Clearly you don’t like people disagreeing with you either so I’ll leave you to it.

 

[Chico84]

1. There needs to be less clubs

Quite possibly. What I’m suggesting is that those who survive will be the ones offering something unique to the future generations of players. We must remember that those core members now won’t necessarily be the potential core membership in 10+ years time.

2. Could define ‘smart casual’ please

I think this is the point, why does it matter? Give people the credit that they can dress sensibly themselves. If there are specific functions requiring special dress codes then that’s a different matter.

3. Golf Clubs are not gyms....call, email or send a pigeon and ask - maybe even pop in and speak to them, they’ll probably give you a free round with some members to see if you like it (and they like you of course!)......

Remember the original point is why people are not taking up the sport. All those things you mention could just be avoided if more information is provided and made clear on websites. I’m really struggling to understand why people are so reluctant for clubs to provide easily accessible, up to date information.

 

[fundy]

I've just joined somewhere after investigating, as I said, about 10 clubs, not Surrey but inside the M25.

Any missing info wasn't rocket science, I just picked up the phone and also visited and spoke to the managers.

You are just incorrect about the clothing, some people simply do not have a clue about what's required.
By laying it down for all to see, it doesn't just set rules, it helps people avoid embarrassment.

Maybe the clubs you looked at aren't looking for new members at the moment, in Surrey that could easily be true.

where you joined? anywhere nice where we might all want to descend on you

 

[sunshine]

where you joined? anywhere nice where we might all want to descend on you

Not Moor Park or Batchworth. I'm going to guess Northwood or Sandy Lodge.