Why Is Golf On The Decline?

[Wolf]

That’s some members of one club used as an example, I also put on link on this thread of a cheap, family club which positively encourages beginners.

We have two pros who coach little kids every week, take them around the shortened course etc

The problem is that golf is a boring & difficult game, that people only play, and carry on playing, if the like it. Other sports are far more exciting and likely to attract and keep kids involved.

One club as an example however many more like it and that is where the stigma lay. Homer made a good point about sine sort of PR drive to help change that but has to be an all in situation.

As for your last point absolutely agree with you thats what turns people off especially now like you said before about consoles etc. There are many other ways to get instant gratification, thrills and enjoyment golf will never offer without time, practice and commitment. Most people can't commit to a relationship these days for longer than a quick swipe right let alone hours of practice to get good at something.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Good point. Maybe the issue is too many courses? When the R&A published a document in the 80's stating we needed another 800 new courses it was a catalyst for every farmer to turn his fields into a 'championship' course. Maybe golf would flourish better with fewer courses and more footfall. The council course I used in the 80's was always rammed, now it's like a ghost town but it provided an excellent facility for very sensible money.

Our local muni is about to go under. A lot of good players in Derby started there. It’s a great course, but conditioning not the best.

We have some absolutely boring tracks now, set up for corporate golf, which people play now instead of the muni.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

But....that slides back into the perception (rightly I think) that golf is expensive and elitist.

Ours isn’t actually like that, just some members.

But why not have elite, expensive etc clubs along side the friendly beginners clubs.
Some courses are too difficult for beginners as well. We have 7 par 4’s around or over 400 yards off the yellow tees. The local muni is a lot shorter.

 

[Crow]

Good point. Maybe the issue is too many courses? When the R&A published a document in the 80's stating we needed another 800 new courses it was a catalyst for every farmer to turn his fields into a 'championship' course. Maybe golf would flourish better with fewer courses and more footfall. The council course I used in the 80's was always rammed, now it's like a ghost town but it provided an excellent facility for very sensible money.

Back in the 80s golf didn't get all the flack thrown at it that it gets now, it was almost a cool ting to do, lots of positive TV representation and with Seve and Co leading the charge public interest was high.

Today outside of golf publications the only publicity you'll see is negative.
We're all just as bad, look at this thread, one person mentions a few members who'd wouldn't mind seeing a hike in prices to reduce membership number and instantly there are numerous shouts of "golf is still elitist and privileged". Wrong, people are elitist and privileged, in all walks of life and in all sports.
Golf needs some good publicity.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I got junior memberships for my two sons when they were 12/13.

Despite an active junior section and plenty of encouragement from myself, the pro and plenty of other members it lasted only two seasons.

Too slow, too boring and this from two very keen and talented cricketers! During the winter football was too great a pull.

It is only now, in their mid to late thirties that golf is really appealing.

Having talked to them and a number of their friends I am convinced that golf is not and never will be attractive to the vast majority of younger people.

Better to follow Orikoru's advice and target those that are coming to the end of their football, rugby and cricket days and are searching for something to fill the void.

 

[Mandofred]

Ours isn’t actually like that, just some members.

But why not have elite, expensive etc clubs along side the friendly beginners clubs.

I thought that's what was already here. We are just over £1000 for this next year. There are a number courses within 10-15 miles that are more expensive and "special". Ganton, Alwoodly, Moortown, etc.....around £100 to play. I don't have any problem with expensive courses, as long as there are decent cheaper courses to choose from.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I thought that's what was already here. We are just over £1000 for this next year. There are a number courses within 10-15 miles that are more expensive and "special". Ganton, Alwoodly, Moortown, etc.....around £100 to play. I don't have any problem with expensive courses, as long as there are decent cheaper courses to choose from.

The op was quoting a course in the same vein as Ganton etc

 

[Dibby]

I got junior memberships for my two sons when they were 12/13.

Despite an active junior section and plenty of encouragement from myself, the pro and plenty of other members it lasted only two seasons.

Too slow, too boring and this from two very keen and talented cricketers! During the winter football was too great a pull.

It is only now, in their mid to late thirties that golf is really appealing.

Having talked to them and a number of their friends I am convinced that golf is not and never will be attractive to the vast majority of younger people.

Better to follow Orikoru's advice and target those that are coming to the end of their football, rugby and cricket days and are searching for something to fill the void.

So the question would be what makes golf boring to kids\young people? Another one of those we could easily just dismiss as "it's always been that way" rather than looking deeper.

Young people seem to like driving ranges from what I see when I go to them, especially with toptracer or some top golf style games. What then changes out on the course? I don't know the answer, at a guess:

• Lost balls
• Not being able to "bomb" all the shots
• Putting being "boring"
• Not being able to reach longer holes in a reasonable number of shots (for younger\smaller kids)
• Attention span (especially for some younger kids)

What can be done to change these? Again I don't know, but things that could be\have been considered:

• Wider more open courses for beginners
• Bigger holes so more emphasise on smashing the ball and less on "boring" putting (added bonus faster play, because less time messing around with reads)
• Shorter tees for beginners\young kids
• Different competition formats that keep attention, less holes, knockouts, head to heads, speed golf (combination of time and shots scoring format), golf sixes style thinking
• Integration with some kind of gaming\app - can't get kids of consoles, fuse physical activity with some kind app\game format - prob why kids love top tracer ranges

Doesn't mean everyone has to play with the above, but if the only option is traditional 9/18 or nothing then golf will likely always be seen as boring to youngsters.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So the question would be what makes golf boring to kids\young people? Another one of those we could easily just dismiss as "it's always been that way" rather than looking deeper.

Young people seem to like driving ranges from what I see when I go to them, especially with toptracer or some top golf style games. What then changes out on the course? I don't know the answer, at a guess:

• Lost balls
• Not being able to "bomb" all the shots
• Putting being "boring"
• Not being able to reach longer holes in a reasonable number of shots (for younger\smaller kids)
• Attention span (especially for some younger kids)

What can be done to change these? Again I don't know, but things that could be\have been considered:

• Wider more open courses for beginners
• Bigger holes so more emphasise on smashing the ball and less on "boring" putting (added bonus faster play, because less time messing around with reads)
• Shorter tees for beginners\young kids
• Different competition formats that keep attention, less holes, knockouts, head to heads, speed golf (combination of time and shots scoring format), golf sixes style thinking
• Integration with some kind of gaming\app - can't get kids of consoles, fuse physical activity with some kind app\game format - prob why kids love top tracer ranges

Doesn't mean everyone has to play with the above, but if the only option is traditional 9/18 or nothing then golf will likely always be seen as boring to youngsters.

A lot of investment would be be needed to provide these different facilities for what is likely to be very little demand.

In any event what has the game of golf to gain from this?

Having come to play this new style of golf as youngsters are they likely to transfer to the more conventional format at some later stage?

Certainly the game cannot afford to be complacent but that doesn't mean it should be targeting the wrong market.

 

[sunshine]

Hiya !!!! Tough day at work. Glad to see no one really got my post. Sure I realise Panmure is obviously a fantastic place to go and play golf but my thoughts were supposing a person was thinking, about playing golf and saw the post on FB followed the link and read through Panmures website. No disrespect top them but as I said would this inspire someone to start to play? I think not. Well I'm sure NOT! Maybe those who post these sort of things on FB or elsewhere should maybe throw in the odd,

Do you think adverts to play Panmure (or other top courses) pop up on the fb feed of non-golfers?

 

[sunshine]

It does cost... because we have this culture where 18 holes is the norm. And also anything less than a par 70 isn't a 'good' course.

There's no 18 hole clubs that will offer a 9 hole membership, so you are restricted to a specific 9 holer. Generally 9 holers are designed specifically with budget in mind so the standard is often well below what a 'normal' 18 holer would get to, or there is a stigma attached to them.

I feel a 12 hole course that was properly designed as such would offer more than most 9 holers that are about today. And 12 is that bit more golf than 9 that people would feel it was more like a 'proper' round and not as much a compromise.

Would also require the governing bodies to change as they currently have rules that all competition golf counting for handicaps must be played over 9 or 18 holes.

At the very least there must be plenty of clubs with 2 courses who are struggling and could consider re-jigging one of their courses and seeing if there was interest for just a 12 hole membership, with competitions played over that number (obv handicaps would have to be calculated over the 1st 9 holes).

Northwick Park tried this with a 6 hole course - the concept of golf in an hour. Also, the holes were built to a high spec, greens were tour quality when it opened, in fact the individual holes were better than those found on other nearby 18 hole courses.

Didn't really work, people prefered the 18 hole experience over 6 great holes. It is now a more conventional 9 holer.

 

[sunshine]

Six holes feels like absolutely nothing. I think more par 3s would be better though - a nine-holer of all par 3s feels more worthwhile than a six-holer. My wife, who doesn't play, once said to me she'd consider it if she could 'see the hole' every time. i.e. par 4s just look incredibly long to her but a par 3 looks more manageable.

take her to horsendon hill

 

[Orikoru]

take her to horsendon hill

She's not actually going to play, it's all idle chit chat.

 

[sunshine]

Yes I know this subject has been discussed loads of times, but, well what else have we got to do? ....Er well I'm off to work in a bit, so I've got something, but in the meantime I saw something on FB and went for a look at the site and for me pointed to EVERYTHING about why golf is on the decline.

Golf In Decline

1. Nothing on the site to indicate the cost of joining. So for a start that will put most golfers off as "If you have to ask the cost, you can't afford"
2. You need a seconder for your application. Huh, snooty lot. The remainder of golfers still looking would say.
3. Cost of a round. Oh yes they've put this in. 80 notes!!!! Thinking of taking up golf? 80 quid for a round of golf? Stuff that, possible new golfers would be thinking.
4. "Visitors are respectfully reminded of the expected traditional high standards of dress on the Panmure Course, Practice Grounds and in the Clubhouse rooms.
Please avoid embarrassing situations by following the Code, as no member of staff is permitted to allow any exception to this Code. Panmure staff members have the authority to decide on acceptable attire, following the descriptions below." From the clubs site itself !!!! Utterly ridiculous!!!!! The final nail in the coffin to those who have even got this far in to looking to play here. Sure, some golfers are ok with this stuff, and will go on to be nasty committee members in the future, if they already aren't, but does this really indicate a welcoming place? Does it nutz.
5. Fancy a pint afterwards? Hogan Lounge:- Panmure GC is famed for its tradition and values, and Council encourages the wearing of Jacket and Tie. AND Dalhousie Room :-Jacket and Tie must be worn by Gentlemen at all times, and commensurate non-golfing attire to be worn by Ladies." So that's that, not brought you jacket and tie? No beer or food either.

Now I realise that not everywhere is like this, thank God, but this for me definately is why golf will continue to decline. Stuffy, puffed up, well I can't put anymore, you know why. Reading Panmures golf site puts me off actually playing, so for anyone thinking of starting up the game.....they'd be put off for life and would take great pleasure of telling all their mates about what they had read and their mates would tell their mates and so on. Word of mouth is a powerful tool and this is why golf is in decline. No if's no but's. No arguements whatsoever.

GM can put out online articles and printed words about this sort of topic, but this is the reason for the decline of golf. The sooner places like this are removed form the golfing world the better.

6. The car park at Panmure is very uneven, and the bays aren't properly marked out.

 

[Orikoru]

Northwick Park tried this with a 6 hole course - the concept of golf in an hour. Also, the holes were built to a high spec, greens were tour quality when it opened, in fact the individual holes were better than those found on other nearby 18 hole courses.

Didn't really work, people prefered the 18 hole experience over 6 great holes. It is now a more conventional 9 holer.

Oh was that six holes to begin with? That's interesting. So which ones were added later, 7, 8 & 9? Or was the whole thing redone? I've been there loads of times but only when it was already nine.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ok, a bit of devil's advocate...

So, why does golf actually "need more people"? If people dont want to play, its because there's something else they'd rather be doing. So why are we trying to stop them doing that, and getting them play golf instead? If people want to play, they will; if they don't, they won't. Generally there'll always be enough courses/facilities to meet the demand of those who do want to play - but in the end, if no-one wants to play, golf will peter out. And in the greater scheme of things - so what?

 

[sunshine]

Oh was that six holes to begin with? That's interesting. So which ones were added later, 7, 8 & 9? Or was the whole thing redone? I've been there loads of times but only when it was already nine.

1-4 haven't changed.
5th used to be a choice, play either of the Open holes.
6th used to be a choice, play either of the Augusta holes.
The 9th used to be part of the short game practice area. They didn't need to build a green, just a tee.

I grew up around the corner, played it quite a lot in 2006 when it first opened (used the gym as well), and the facility was immaculate, including the short game area. Greens as good as anything at a top 100 course. Playing the Augusta 16th hole you had to play the ball up the shelf and let it roll down the slope to a left pin, like they do at the Masters, the green was too quick to hold a straight shot (Tiger 2005 chip). It was also tougher, I think they have now retired some of the back tees and cut back the rough / gorse. For example the 1st was 190 yards and now it's 150.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Ok, a bit of devil's advocate...

So, why does golf actually "need more people"? If people dont want to play, its because there's something else they'd rather be doing. So why are we trying to stop them doing that, and getting them play golf instead? If people want to play, they will; if they don't, they won't. Generally there'll always be enough courses/facilities to meet the demand of those who do want to play - but in the end, if no-one wants to play, golf will peter out. And in the greater scheme of things - so what?

Agree fully. The only reason I'd have an interest to say growing my own club was if that would lower my yearly subs or more money could be put into improvements of the course. Other than that, I don't find a single reason why we would "need" more people.

 

[Orikoru]

1-4 haven't changed.
5th used to be a choice, play either of the Open holes.
6th used to be a choice, play either of the Augusta holes.
The 9th used to be part of the short game practice area. They didn't need to build a green, just a tee.

I grew up around the corner, played it quite a lot in 2006 when it first opened (used the gym as well), and the facility was immaculate, including the short game area. Greens as good as anything at a top 100 course. Playing the Augusta 16th hole you had to play the ball up the shelf and let it roll down the slope to a left pin, like they do at the Masters, the green was too quick to hold a straight shot (Tiger 2005 chip). It was also tougher, I think they have now retired some of the back tees and cut back the rough / gorse. For example the 1st was 190 yards and now it's 150.

Ahh clever, ok. I vaguely remember when it was built and everything but I wasn't playing much golf then. I've been down there loads the last few years though. I loved the AG Outlet they had for bargain clubs, was gutted that shut down. Been round the nine hole a few times on summer Friday evenings, it was always a nice quick one to do followed by a pint and a super overpriced bite to eat. Donated quite a handful of balls to that lake on the 9th. I remember one time I got in that stubborn Tin Cup mood and stuffed three in in a row.

 

[sunshine]

Ahh clever, ok. I vaguely remember when it was built and everything but I wasn't playing much golf then. I've been down there loads the last few years though. I loved the AG Outlet they had for bargain clubs, was gutted that shut down. Been round the nine hole a few times on summer Friday evenings, it was always a nice quick one to do followed by a pint and a super overpriced bite to eat. Donated quite a handful of balls to that lake on the 9th. I remember one time I got in that stubborn Tin Cup mood and stuffed three in in a row.

So many balls in that lake! The course is too difficult for the majority of people who play there. One time we were playing there and 2 gulls were diving into the water to pick up balls, then flying up and dropping them from height on to the fairway. My mate and I just hoovered up dozens of balls. Never seen anything like it.