Why Is Golf On The Decline?

[Deleted member 1147]

9 and 9 doesn't work at our course, but there are other options. An 11 hole Stableford goes all year....most (that like gambling/competing) carry on for the whole round, but there are some that quit at 11 since it is fairly close to the clubhouse. You can walk straight to your car from the 7th green. Easily quite after 13 as well. How many have courses that you can't get back to the clubhouse easily after 8-14 holes?

I can do:
1 & 18
1,2,3 & 18
1,2,3,4 & 18
1,2,3,4,5,17,18
1-9
10,11,12
10,11,12,13,14,18
10-18
plenty of opportunities to play fewer than 18 holes

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I just looked up a few articles on changing the number of holes. Part of me wouldn't mind a change, the other part of me does. I used to run a lot....would a marathon still be a marathon if it wasn't 26.2 miles (42.2K)? It would make sense I guess to "change it" to 25 miles since that number is rounder....or maybe 40K. It is what it is. But....you can run 10K if you want....or 10 miles, there are plenty of races of different distances. This article was kind of interesting to me.. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/sports/golf/to-lure-new-golfers-a-push-for-a-shorter-round.html I occasionally mention just playing the course in a different way just for the heck of it....maybe go from the reds instead.....I just get stares of horror, or even laughed at. People just don't want change.

Yes, marathons are too long.
26 is too many, takes too long to complete & isn’t attractive to young kids who’d rather be on consoles!

 

[Wolf]

Yes, marathons are too long.
26 is too many, takes too long to complete & isn’t attractive to young kids who’d rather be on consoles!

That is fast becoming the norm for all sports, less participation in youngsters because they have easy access to consoles.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

That is fast becoming the norm for all sports, less participation in youngsters because they have easy access to consoles.

Yet Grant85paragraphs thinks 18 holes is the problem

 

[GB72]

That is fast becoming the norm for all sports, less participation in youngsters because they have easy access to consoles.

I would also ask how many golf clubs are attractive to youngsters. We have plenty of young kids up the club and that is fine as they are under the watchful eye of the pro. Once they reach an age when they need to start getting out on their own, golf clubs become very unwelcoming and intimidating. You look at other sports that can take a group of kids at junior level, coach them up through the ranks and they still come back as adults, even during and after university. Golf clubs seem to want to give kids a grounding in the game then do not want to see them again until they are 40.

 

[Wolf]

Yet Grant85paragraphs thinks 18 holes is the problem

I think he has a point in there though in that dragging a kid away from a console for say 6 holes is am easier win than 18 holes. It's a baby steps thing in a way but consoles are a whole issue to themselves.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I think he has a point in there though in that dragging a kid away from a console for say 6 holes is am easier win than 18 holes. It's a baby steps thing in a way but consoles are a whole issue to themselves.

Like several folks have pointed out, golf can be & is played over fewer holes.
I learnt on a public pitch and putt, young kids at my place play 6 shortened holes .

 

[Grant85]

I just looked up a few articles on changing the number of holes. Part of me wouldn't mind a change, the other part of me does. I used to run a lot....would a marathon still be a marathon if it wasn't 26.2 miles (42.2K)? It would make sense I guess to "change it" to 25 miles since that number is rounder....or maybe 40K. It is what it is. But....you can run 10K if you want....or 10 miles, there are plenty of races of different distances. This article was kind of interesting to me.. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/sports/golf/to-lure-new-golfers-a-push-for-a-shorter-round.html I occasionally mention just playing the course in a different way just for the heck of it....maybe go from the reds instead.....I just get stares of horror, or even laughed at. People just don't want change.

Running is a bit different because the vast majority of participants won't pay much or anything to run. And if you do pay to enter an event, it's a one time payment for a one time event. You aren't committing the cost of 6 marathons up front at the start of the year and end up only running 3.

And absolutely there are keen runners that will only run and train for 5k or 10k events because they don't want to commit the time to running 13 to 18 miles twice a week in training.

And of course, running and cycling, benefit massively from being activities that people can do when they want and go at 5 minutes notice with no financial outlay (barring some basic equipment).

 

[Wolf]

I would also ask how many golf clubs are attractive to youngsters. We have plenty of young kids up the club and that is fine as they are under the watchful eye of the pro. Once they reach an age when they need to start getting out on their own, golf clubs become very unwelcoming and intimidating. You look at other sports that can take a group of kids at junior level, coach them up through the ranks and they still come back as adults, even during and after university. Golf clubs seem to want to give kids a grounding in the game then do not want to see them again until they are 40.

I think that's a very good point when it comes to attracting kids to the game. When I was a junior we had so many restrictions imposed upon us for time of play, where we could and couldn't go in the clubhouse etc, even ordering food was a nightmare because you couldn't go to the bar to order, but equally weren't allowed in the main bar area at all where the restaurant was, you had to go out the spike bar (only placed we were allowed without an adult) through the car park, across the putting green and knock on kitchen door in hope somebody would hear you.

Even my club I've just left, 16 months I saw only 2 Juniors. Because they simply don't cater for anyone under the age of 30. There literally is nowhere for them to go and socialise with friends except on the course. I don't know what the answers are to improve that but golf can and still does in many places come across as middle aged and unwelcoming. Not all cases but some, that's a stigma that needs removing to attract more youngsters but also more that are mid 30s plus looking for a new sport.

 

[GB72]

Like several folks have pointed out, golf can be & is played over fewer holes.
I learnt on a public pitch and putt, young kids at my place play 6 shortened holes .

I sometimes wonder who much is down to parental selfishness (OK that sounds a bit harsh but cannot word it better). Parent wants to play 18 holes on the full course and so that is what junior is going to do too even though junior may be better suited at the time to the local par 3 course or 9 hole course.

We have an excellent 9 hole course near me that gears itself as a place to learn to play golf. There needs to be more places like that as the gap between pitch and putt and short par 3 courses and a full course is pretty huge.

 

[Grant85]

Yet Grant85paragraphs thinks 18 holes is the problem

well given that you can't ban consoles or make them less accessible, why not come up with a realistic idea that golf clubs and authorities can actually control in order to getting more people into the game?

Business as usual is going to have a critical impact on golf in the future.

And there are obviously a lot of people in their 30s and 40s who had a console growing up and still use it a lot for their leisure time.

 

[GB72]

I think that's a very good point when it comes to attracting kids to the game. When I was a junior we had so many restrictions imposed upon us for time of play, where we could and couldn't go in the clubhouse etc, even ordering food was a nightmare because you couldn't go to the bar to order, but equally weren't allowed in the main bar area at all where the restaurant was, you had to go out the spike bar (only placed we were allowed without an adult) through the car park, across the putting green and knock on kitchen door in hope somebody would hear you.

Even my club I've just left, 16 months I saw only 2 Juniors. Because they simply don't cater for anyone under the age of 30. There literally is nowhere for them to go and socialise with friends except on the course. I don't know what the answers are to improve that but golf can and still does in many places come across as middle aged and unwelcoming. Not all cases but some, that's a stigma that needs removing to attract more youngsters but also more that are mid 30s plus looking for a new sport.

I would go further and say that some clubs (or their members at least) really do not want younger people around the place. In some instances I would add to that they women are discouraged as well. Other sporting clubs have encouraged people to bring the family up, use the bar and food facilities etc but I have always found golf clubs very much the opposite and non golfers in the family are really not welcome at all.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I would go further and say that some clubs (or their members at least) really do not want younger people around the place. In some instances I would add to that they women are discouraged as well. Other sporting clubs have encouraged people to bring the family up, use the bar and food facilities etc but I have always found golf clubs very much the opposite and non golfers in the family are really not welcome at all.

You’ve joined the wrong clubs then pal, 2 clubs I’ve been at positively encourage family to visit the club

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Why do we assume golf needs more people?
Perhaps it’d be better if fewer people played, but paid more for the privilege.
I pay £1600 per year & know people at my club who’d happily pay £5k+ to have fewer members and keep it quieter and more selection.

 

[Wolf]

I would go further and say that some clubs (or their members at least) really do not want younger people around the place. In some instances I would add to that they women are discouraged as well. Other sporting clubs have encouraged people to bring the family up, use the bar and food facilities etc but I have always found golf clubs very much the opposite and non golfers in the family are really not welcome at all.

I'd agree with that in many cases, golf clubs are seen as exclusively an escape environment for the men to enjoy away from the wife and children. I've taken my kids to clubs before and you can feel the eyes on you as if to say what are they doing here. Its like an assumption is made kids will be running riot uncontrolled and ruin the exclusivity of this haven people have. It's not all. Clubs but there are many.

I listened to a pod cast last year with Keith Pelley, Martin Slumbers & Hugh Marr, it was brilliant and about how they wanted to replicate the Scandinavian model for new clubs being built in that they become not only a golf club but a family social outlet to. You'd need to listen to it get all details but the jist was the end result would mean more participation from men, women & juniors because each would have reason to be there as well as golf.

Why do we assume golf needs more people?
Perhaps it’d be better if fewer people played, but paid more for the privilege.
I pay £1600 per year & know people at my club who’d happily pay £5k+ to have fewer members and keep it quieter and more selection.

And therein lies the issue with the perception of golf as sport for the wealthy and entitled.

 

[KenL]

Why do we assume golf needs more people?
Perhaps it’d be better if fewer people played, but paid more for the privilege.
I pay £1600 per year & know people at my club who’d happily pay £5k+ to have fewer members and keep it quieter and more selection.

I detest that elitist point of view. Heard it said by a few people at my place who think they own it!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I'd agree with that in many cases, golf clubs are seen as exclusively an escape environment for the men to enjoy away from the wife and children. I've taken my kids to clubs before and you can feel the eyes on you as if to say what are they doing here. Its like an assumption is made kids will be running riot uncontrolled and ruin the exclusivity of this haven people have. It's not all. Clubs but there are many.

I listened to a pod cast last year with Keith Pelley, Martin Slumbers & Hugh Marr, it was brilliant and about how they wanted to replicate the Scandinavian model for new clubs being built in that they become not only a golf club but a family social outlet to. You'd need to listen to it get all details but the jist was the end result would mean more participation from men, women & juniors because each would have reason to be there as well as golf.


And therein lies the issue with the perception of golf as sport for the wealthy and entitled.

That’s some members of one club used as an example, I also put on link on this thread of a cheap, family club which positively encourages beginners.

We have two pros who coach little kids every week, take them around the shortened course etc

The problem is that golf is a boring & difficult game, that people only play, and carry on playing, if the like it. Other sports are far more exciting and likely to attract and keep kids involved.

 

[GB72]

I detest that elitist point of view. Heard it said by a few people at my place who think they own it!

Got an element of this at my club. Accusations made at the meeting to discuss the last subscription increase that elements in the club wanted to hike the fees as much as possible to get rid of the riff raff.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Why do we assume golf needs more people?

Good point. Maybe the issue is too many courses? When the R&A published a document in the 80's stating we needed another 800 new courses it was a catalyst for every farmer to turn his fields into a 'championship' course. Maybe golf would flourish better with fewer courses and more footfall. The council course I used in the 80's was always rammed, now it's like a ghost town but it provided an excellent facility for very sensible money.

 

[Mandofred]

Why do we assume golf needs more people?
Perhaps it’d be better if fewer people played, but paid more for the privilege.
I pay £1600 per year & know people at my club who’d happily pay £5k+ to have fewer members and keep it quieter and more selection.

But....that slides back into the perception (rightly I think) that golf is expensive and elitist.