IanM
Journeyman Pro
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Illegitimate golf balls? That's why I've heard folk shout that after a bad shot!
Rolling back the pro game
- Thread starter Klimski
- Start date
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
As an aside - but related - I can't but help smile seeing some lady pros (mostly SE Asian) play a driver that is almost as long as the player is tall. Not sure how they do it, but I guess they just swing the club and hit the ball.
Lucifer MorningStar
Well-known member
I love watching the women’s game , I genuinely think it’s far more relatable than the men’s, especially when you look at course length and shots they play. Also as a short ass myself I am in awe of their driver control as the longer driver shaft is and has always been a battle for me.
cleveland52
Active member
I reject your premise if the object of the game is to have the lowest score. Based on that, no course is obsolete; it's just not played in the manner that you think it should be played. What you call a balance of skill is very subjective, imo.
You say that the spectacle is much less interesting, yet golf has never been more popular and definitely has never been more lucrative. Again, very subjective, the mass viewership disagrees with you.
What some call tricked up, others call making the course more defensive.
*Anyway, the powers that be have decided to limit the travel of the golf ball, but I thought that those measures were already in place.
cleveland52
Active member
Just to be clear, Pro golf is not about the balance of skill. It is strictly about getting the ball in the hole with fewer strokes than your opponent by any means necessary. Collecting a trophy and a check.
Leisure golf and exhibitions are another story.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Roll back the driver head size. How this was allowed to happen i will never know.
srixon 1
Journeyman Pro
I listened to the No Putts Given podcast the other day and the guest was Jason Day. He thinks the change needed is to make the driver hard to hit again.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
I’d agree with this, optimal distance should not be reduced for centre strikes, but mishits should be punished more than they currently are. The result of this change to equipment would then lead to more conservative swings and less distance overall.
Try getting Titleist et al to buy into that though. They wouldn’t sell any clubs, so it’s not hapoening.
Mandofred
Well-known member
Heck with Titleist getting upset. I bet as usual it's the people who use the equipment. Going back to harder to hit clubs is fine with me.....but the people who demand things to be "easier" will have conniptions.
AussieKB
Well-known member
I pull out my old Ultra Firestick occasionally for hit and wonder how I used to play with it, the head is smaller then my Titleist 5 wood
wjemather
Well-known member
There would need to be formal bifurcation of the rules in order for such a change to be effective for tour pros and acceptable for recreational amateurs.
The biggest obstacle to bifurcation is the equipment manufacturers, who insist on being able to claim that they are selling us the same gear as played on tour, even if they're actually just selling us something that looks the same.
bobmac
Major Champion
What are the differences between the equipment that amateurs buy and the pros get?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
The shafts mainly, I would say!
srixon 1
Journeyman Pro
This is for everyone. Day doesn’t want bifurcation.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
There are some really interesting points made here by Bryson, Casey and Lahiri. My personal belief, speaking from experience, is that the golf ball doesn't actually travel much further now than it did 20 years back - the clubs, in particular driver, are just easier to hit.
I find the whole notion of rollback frustrating - it's a movement by some boring men in suits being made to keep other boring men in suits happy and at the same time it will retard the game for most of it's participants.
Anyway, this is what guys who play at the highest level think.
I find the whole notion of rollback frustrating - it's a movement by some boring men in suits being made to keep other boring men in suits happy and at the same time it will retard the game for most of it's participants.
Anyway, this is what guys who play at the highest level think.
Klimski
Well-known member
That the golf ball has major influence on the distance gains and forgivenes isn't up for debate - there is data to prove that modern balls outperform older generations of balls in every aspect. Your personal experience isn't very relevant, in fact: I also personally don't notice the difference from 20 years ago, but that's because if you're average, you're average - regardless of the ball.
But for the top tier players this is different. In a game defined by percentage gains it has been a huge influence, and if these players are denying that, they are... in denial. They are totally correct though that (from Tiger Woods impact) athleticism is a powerful force behind the gains that have been made, accounting for far more than gear used. That said, it works both ways as modern equipment has made it feasible to hit the ball 'as hard as possible' due to the vastly increased forgiveness and spin control.
So, why the ball rollback? It's mainly political, or economically driven. It's seen as the best way to regulate the game without significantly damaging business interests and without bifurcation..
However, I personally feel that everything I've read about the ball rollback leads me to conclude it's a bad solution for a problem that in itself is debatable in its seriousness. I personally don't care if a winning score is -2 or -21. I have previously proposed 'rollback' type solutions that would work, but have never seen any enthusiasm around those (for example limiting driver head size, loft and shaft length, in effect, making the current mini drivers the new tour drivers). I have come to the conclusion that course setup is really the only actual solution to challenging the top players more (if that's actually a goal).
I think that the ball rollback won't happen in the end, as it has serious impact without solving anything. So, after expending many words on this, I think I agree with the sentiment of your post Mel, without agreeing with the substance of it...haha
wjemather
Well-known member
You and they are wrong and miss the entire point, but they are paid to do so by manufacturers.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I agree with Lahiri, there are still competitions now where the winning scores are a lot lower, so it obviously comes down to course set-up. Make fairways narrower, rough more punishing at 300 yards+, more internal out of bounds areas. Then you'll see an emphasis on accuracy again, but the guys who can hit it long and straight still get rewarded.
Klimski
Well-known member
Extending courses actually favours long hitters in scoring. The longer the course, the more critical it becomes to hit the ball further, and the more rewarding it becomes to hit it big.
Part of this comes down to how much dominance of the game do you want with driver? If you are happy that driver is so key to golf, leave things alone. If you want other aspects of golf to have more relevance, something needs to happen.
No surprise the guys in the clip don't want rollback. As has also been mentioned, they are also paid by the companies fighting rollback ..........
No surprise the guys in the clip don't want rollback. As has also been mentioned, they are also paid by the companies fighting rollback ..........
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