Wolf
Well-known member
Not necessarily true. Even Keith Pelley & Martin Slumbers have stated golf needs more short format set ups that could even include having courses laid out in 3 loops of 6 holes.
I personally think that's a very good idea.
Why Is Golf On The Decline?
- Thread starter Crazyface
- Start date
I personally think that's a very good idea.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I can't see that solving anything personally. 9/18 holes courses are a tried and tested solution. The problem is getting kids to put down their consoles and get out in the fresh air. We have a junior academy on Saturday mornings and it is well attended. If more clubs did the same the game might grow.
Wolf
Well-known member
And if golf was say 6 holes a shorter time frame for those youngsters they might play. Just because something has always been 9 or 18 holes, or because you can't see it solving anything personally doesn't mean its not worth a try.
Golf sixes is a great idea for short format competition and would be a fun way of getting younger people involved.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I just looked up football attendances, figures for 2018/2019 season says a total of 18.3 million people attended matches across the top 4 divisions. Based on a 40 week season that is more than 450,000 per week who attend games both home and away at a cost that is probably more than a club membership. Based on this I don't think the time/money argument is a big factor. If people wanted to play golf they could find the time and money.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
There’s an awful lot wrong with the website that would put people off golf but its not necessarily what the OP describes. Here’s just some
Link to news with no news, link to vacancies with no vacancies, you get the trend here
Links to a Pro shop with no info other than a potted CV of the Head Pro
No Junior section
Link to a snack menu with no snack menu
Link to Catering with a huge pic of some fuzzy restaurant posted at the wrong aspect
I gave up looking after seeing the above screw ups. This kind of amateur-hour nonsense would put me off taking up golf at this course anyway... If they do golf like they do websites then maybe avoid
Edit: I almost forgot: this out of focus upended restaurant is likely the very same one that requires you to wear a jacket & tie !
Link to news with no news, link to vacancies with no vacancies, you get the trend here
Links to a Pro shop with no info other than a potted CV of the Head Pro
No Junior section
Link to a snack menu with no snack menu
Link to Catering with a huge pic of some fuzzy restaurant posted at the wrong aspect
I gave up looking after seeing the above screw ups. This kind of amateur-hour nonsense would put me off taking up golf at this course anyway... If they do golf like they do websites then maybe avoid
Edit: I almost forgot: this out of focus upended restaurant is likely the very same one that requires you to wear a jacket & tie !
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Six holes feels like absolutely nothing. I think more par 3s would be better though - a nine-holer of all par 3s feels more worthwhile than a six-holer. My wife, who doesn't play, once said to me she'd consider it if she could 'see the hole' every time. i.e. par 4s just look incredibly long to her but a par 3 looks more manageable.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Do you think there is a significant difference between 6 hole courses and the current 9 hole ones? If a kid is keen to play then he will quite happily continue for another 3 holes IMO.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Kids at my place happily play 3 plus rounds a day, have putting comps on the practice green, and if we had a par 3 course, they would batter that as well. 12 holes? Maybe before breakfast.
Wolf
Well-known member
Do I think there is significant difference, for me as an adult potentially not, but I would happily pop out and play 6 holes before or after work. If there were say 3 loops of 6, it'd give the likes of me more choice where family is still young and I could play 6, 12, or 18 depending how much time i have that day. My little girl could walk 6 holes with me but there no way she'd make anything longer.
As for youngsters yes I think there is a significant difference especially at the younger sub teen age, not all juniors are teenagers with nowhere better to be. So imo more options brings more people opportunity.
Its about attention spans and development, a kid may enjoy the shorter format more and develop over time to longer rounds as their attention gets better for longer. Just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried.
Crow
Crow Person
I see we're back to trying to attract youngsters to the sport as its saviour.
Golf has never been attractive to the huge majority of youngsters and never will be.
The average golfer has always been past the prime of their sporting prowess and always will be, it's that type of game.
Great if some youngsters do take it up and they should be encouraged if they do, but changing the whole set-up in a vain attempt to attract youth is a dead-end and a costly one at that.
The target market for growing golf numbers is the 30 plus age group, or even 40 plus.
Strip away the lazy stereotypes.
Show the positives.
This needs to happen across all media and for several years, it won't be easy.
Golf has never been attractive to the huge majority of youngsters and never will be.
The average golfer has always been past the prime of their sporting prowess and always will be, it's that type of game.
Great if some youngsters do take it up and they should be encouraged if they do, but changing the whole set-up in a vain attempt to attract youth is a dead-end and a costly one at that.
The target market for growing golf numbers is the 30 plus age group, or even 40 plus.
Strip away the lazy stereotypes.
Show the positives.
This needs to happen across all media and for several years, it won't be easy.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
My course isn't really laid out well in the sense of 'loops' but with a little bit of cutting across it is possible to play 4/7/9/11 holes in the evening when it is quiet so I'm struggling to see any benefit in going to the expense of building 6 hole courses. As Orikoru said, par 3 courses would have more benefit getting people into the game.
Yorkshire Hacker
Newbie
Interesting thread, and some more interesting posts. As previously stated, I believe all golf courses should TRY to have a 6 hole "front 9", and a 12 hole "back 9", or vice versa, and you could still have your 18 hole competitions.
Obviously there a many courses set up for 9 and 9, and impossible to change. But SOME could.
My youngest daughter, who could be a really good player if she wanted, is happy to do about 12 holes, but she consistently goes right off the boil after that, stating that "she's had enough".
Don't blame the parents, please, she mid 30s now, it's just how she is. She applies herself to her vocation in life in the most enthusiastic way, but for a casual knock with her Dad, AND her husband, 12 holes would be just right. I think modern youth would relate to this.
Future courses ought to think about this change, I believe it's the way to go.
From my point of view, I like 18 holes for Comps and Summer social games, but for a summer evening, 6 holes would do for me. For some folk, 12 would be OK.
For winter, our course could easily remove three holes. 15 holes for me would be perfect.
Sadly, something has to change, I have a feeling that golf is genuinely and noticeably in decline. I have been playing since 2001, and I have seen a big change in that time.
Some of you who have played for 40 years or more must have seen a massive change.
Obviously there a many courses set up for 9 and 9, and impossible to change. But SOME could.
My youngest daughter, who could be a really good player if she wanted, is happy to do about 12 holes, but she consistently goes right off the boil after that, stating that "she's had enough".
Don't blame the parents, please, she mid 30s now, it's just how she is. She applies herself to her vocation in life in the most enthusiastic way, but for a casual knock with her Dad, AND her husband, 12 holes would be just right. I think modern youth would relate to this.
Future courses ought to think about this change, I believe it's the way to go.
From my point of view, I like 18 holes for Comps and Summer social games, but for a summer evening, 6 holes would do for me. For some folk, 12 would be OK.
For winter, our course could easily remove three holes. 15 holes for me would be perfect.
Sadly, something has to change, I have a feeling that golf is genuinely and noticeably in decline. I have been playing since 2001, and I have seen a big change in that time.
Some of you who have played for 40 years or more must have seen a massive change.
Grant85
Head Pro
Well I disagree with you on that.
A lot of sports have developed shorter formats for watching and playing, which have been a success.
The issue in golf is that too many decision makers are people like ourselves who play 18 holes, have always played and will always prioritise golf in our life to continue doing so.
But I think the demographics and participation rates are frightening and more and more clubs are going to be on the breadline every year if a significant change doesn't come about as to how people play / access and think about golf.
Grant85
Head Pro
This would be a step... but my point about being a fully committed 12 hole course / round / competition is that the cost would come down as well. It would be a half-way house and not allow people to see or receive the full benefits.
At the moment, of course there is nothing to stop people playing shorter formats - and many do when the 10th or 16th hole gets them back to the clubhouse. But these people are still paying for 18 holes to be maintained.
I see the obvious barrier to that is that not many memberships are going to want to rip up / abandon / sell 6 of their holes and the 12 that are left may need quite a bit of redevelopment to flow correctly.
It lends itself much more to a commercial operation buying a club in administration and making the investment to convert to a proper 12 hole facility.
However, some courses will lend themselves fairly well to being converted, and with a bit of luck, the land that is no longer used can be sold or repurposed to generate money.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
So has golf. They are called 9 hole courses, par 3 courses and pitch/putt courses but if you want to persist with your 12 hole format then carry on and good luck.
Mandofred
Well-known member
9 and 9 doesn't work at our course, but there are other options. An 11 hole Stableford goes all year....most (that like gambling/competing) carry on for the whole round, but there are some that quit at 11 since it is fairly close to the clubhouse. You can walk straight to your car from the 7th green. Easily quite after 13 as well. How many have courses that you can't get back to the clubhouse easily after 8-14 holes?
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I think golf like most amateur sports (the professional game in most will look after their own interests) will need to do a lot of thinking and changing of focus once we get to a better sense of "normal". I don't see junior golf as the main issue and there were loads of programmes and initiatives at that level before Covid that I am sure can be reinstated. What we really need is an influx on adult members and clubs then have to give them something they can see as an investment each year so they join and then renew their membership year on year.
One thing that isn't going to change anytime soon is slow play. It is definitely the cancer in the game and no amount if whinging and "education" will stop the same suspects in their normal fourball holding the whole course up on a Saturday morning. Most clubs tens to sweep slow play under the carpet and I can't see any way of improving it.
If golf is serious about halting a decline, then it needs a major PR campaign in terms of how non-golfers still perceive the game. Those that play, even P&P golfers will know that many clubs are now welcoming and there aren't the old stuffy dress code rules (some are still twenty years behind the times) but from the outside it is still deemed as elitist
One thing that isn't going to change anytime soon is slow play. It is definitely the cancer in the game and no amount if whinging and "education" will stop the same suspects in their normal fourball holding the whole course up on a Saturday morning. Most clubs tens to sweep slow play under the carpet and I can't see any way of improving it.
If golf is serious about halting a decline, then it needs a major PR campaign in terms of how non-golfers still perceive the game. Those that play, even P&P golfers will know that many clubs are now welcoming and there aren't the old stuffy dress code rules (some are still twenty years behind the times) but from the outside it is still deemed as elitist
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Mine. You can walk to the 17th tee quite easily from either the 7th or 9th greens but once you go to the 10th that's it until you finish. But as stated in a previous post, there are a couple of small loops you can play on the front 9.
Mandofred
Well-known member
I just looked up a few articles on changing the number of holes. Part of me wouldn't mind a change, the other part of me does. I used to run a lot....would a marathon still be a marathon if it wasn't 26.2 miles (42.2K)? It would make sense I guess to "change it" to 25 miles since that number is rounder....or maybe 40K. It is what it is. But....you can run 10K if you want....or 10 miles, there are plenty of races of different distances. This article was kind of interesting to me.. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/sports/golf/to-lure-new-golfers-a-push-for-a-shorter-round.html I occasionally mention just playing the course in a different way just for the heck of it....maybe go from the reds instead.....I just get stares of horror, or even laughed at. People just don't want change.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Exactly right, the target market is people in their 30s maybe coming to the end of playing football or rugby, or maybe cricket or tennis, and would potentially see golf as the answer to "how can I keep playing sport as I get older" - if they didn't have the impression that it takes 5 hours and costs hundreds of pounds.
