LIV Golf

[Imurg]

Sportico managed to obtain the nonprofit's IRS filings for the North American circuit's tax return for 2022.

The report broke down Monahan's compensation, which included a base salary of $1.8m plus bonuses and incentives of $9.2m.

In total, the PGA Tour's legal fees increased 10-fold from $2m in 2021 to $20.7m last year.

"How does anyone get a bonus for racking up legal fees ?"

I don't know if that amount is par for the course or not because all people have done is shouted out the numbers and not compared them to similar CEO roles...
It may be too much, it may be right....who knows?
But to just shout it out.."ooh, look how much he's getting" is waste of time and sensationalist.

And I wonder why the legal fees have jumped.....Mmm....let me think about that one for a while...........

 

[Imurg]

And, of course, the LIVers fail to see the irony of making noise about JMs pay when they've just splashed 400 million on a player....

 

[Mel Smooth]

I don't know if that amount is par for the course or not because all people have done is shouted out the numbers and not compared them to similar CEO roles...
It may be too much, it may be right....who knows?
But to just shout it out.."ooh, look how much he's getting" is waste of time and sensationalist.

And I wonder why the legal fees have jumped.....Mmm....let me think about that one for a while...........

I think it's the comparison to the year before that people are questioning, when his remuneration was just shy of $14 miilion - It's now gone up to 18.6 million - although in his defence - nobody probably realised what a terrible job he was doing in the period the most recent tax return covers.
It definitely won't sit well with those players who are questioning the leadership of the tour right now.

 

[Mel Smooth]

And, of course, the LIVers fail to see the irony of making noise about JMs pay when they've just splashed 400 million on a player....

Whataboutery...

 

[RichA]

I think it's the comparison to the year before that people are questioning, when his remuneration was just shy of $14 miilion - It's now gone up to 18.6 million - although in his defence - nobody probably realised what a terrible job he was doing in the period the most recent tax return covers.
It definitely won't sit well with those players who are questioning the leadership of the tour right now.

View attachment 50969

Don't know anything about him, other than nobody seeming to like him, but the figures are never going to look good for the CEO of an organisation whose chief competitor opens with a multi-billion dollar loss leader with no expectation of making money for the first decade of business.

 

[WGCRider]

In LIV's plans, were it continue, are they dropping the individual element and making a team thing only? Sounds they way it is heading according to Bubba. Doesnt solve golf fundamentally being an individual sport, and not a team one issue, so sounds even worse an idea than the current hybrid team/individual.

That is the bit I struggle with about LIV. It's 3 USP's are;

1) The team stuff - but as of today nobody cares. How are they going to turn this around?

2) The travelling the world part - It's admirable but ultimately more people will watch on the broadcast than will watch live. Moving through different time zones and not being at a fixed time in the TV schedule is a problem. This is the same problem the DPWT has attracting TV audiences.

3) The best golfers - This is arguable today but can be solved when there is a credible ranking system in place. LIV will do their thing and the PGA tour theirs but they players will be together for a number of events a year. Performance is those events can set rankings.

 

[Backsticks]

That is the bit I struggle with about LIV. It's 3 USP's are;

1) The team stuff - but as of today nobody cares. How are they going to turn this around?

The plan seems to be teams only competitions, with non playing team Captains. So no singles element. I guess the idea is that if there is no single element, and teams is everything, then people will follow the team competition by default. It still sounds nonsense to me. Golf is a singles sport. Bubba talks about selecting teams as you would in football or real team sports, where synergy, and the sum of the whole is critical to the coaches strategy. But golf is just about getting the best you can. There is no strategy or skill in that.

 

[cleveland52]

Whataboutery...

No, whataboutery would be comparing Jay Monahan salary to Greg Norman's $50M annual salary for heading up a failed golf league.

 

[GB72]

And, of course, the LIVers fail to see the irony of making noise about JMs pay when they've just splashed 400 million on a player....

That was just a power move though, in my opinion, a bit of a flex.

The PGA Tour were pushing the fact that they were talking to other investors and hinting that the framework with PIF may not happen. PIF just show them what they are up against by spending £400 million to take one of their top players without blinking. In my opinion, if the PGA Tour had not been touting other investors, this would not have happened.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Flushing it posted a pretty funny tweet last night about the meeting today between Yasir and Jay - I'd love to post it but I'd be getting a ban for sure.

If you use X, it's worth finding..

 

[BubbaP]

In LIV's plans, were it continue, are they dropping the individual element and making a team thing only? Sounds they way it is heading according to Bubba. Doesnt solve golf fundamentally being an individual sport, and not a team one issue, so sounds even worse an idea than the current hybrid team/individual.

Do you have a link for this as haven't spotted it?

 

[Backsticks]

Do you have a link for this as haven't spotted it?

Early enough in the Bubba section of Mel's linked interview with him above.

Selling the vision where he sees himself as a non playing captain but involved on the course giving advice to his players. Maybe he is letting something slip here that isnt ready for official promotion, but does look like a future that has been painted for him.

Its conceivable post reunification, that the PGAT could be the singles competition tour, but Monahan tries to save the LIV tour by giving it a teams only bent. Thus keeping the two tours non overlapping spheres competitively...except for the players. Play PGAT for your singles wins, play the LIV league for your team, and earn your PIP type top up by being a dutiful world touring 'growing the game' mouthpiece show pony and doing adverts for taking your holidays in beautiful Saudi.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

but Monahan tries to save the LIV tour by giving it a teams only bent.

The only person making decisions on the future of the Liv Tour is Yassir Al Rumayyan.
He has all the leverage..

In fact many will be surprised if JM is still commissioner by the time the Liv season kicks off in February.

 

[Backsticks]

The only person making decisions on the future of the Liv Tour is Yassir Al Rumayyan.
He has all the leverage..

In fact many will be surprised if JM is still commissioner by the time the Liv season kicks off in February.

Thats possible. But it does look like PIF is only one leg of the three legged stool now, so may not be calling all the shots. You could be right though, it might well be Yasir pushing the LIV as the teams only part of the new landscape too.

While I think such teams are a lost cause, it would be a face saving move for those advocating LIV's proposition, concentrating where it can make its teams case, without impinging on the PGAT singles golf tradition. Some of the big names can play both. Those on the slide like Bubba or Westwood etc can be the full time anchors of LIV, team franchises, non playing captains,owners etc. It would at least kill the criticisms LIV invites as a non credible singles tournament, and the teams element, not weighed down by that, can then try to create its market and following on its own merit.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Why would Yassir spend $450 million securing Jon Rahm on his tour and reportedly about to spend more on extra PGAT players going across if he was giving up control of Liv.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Liv may go exclusively down the team route in the far future but that will be with Yassir's approval.

Yassir just has to say in the negotiations if I don't get a deal that's suits me I will spend whatever has to be spent to take the majority of your best players and devalue your product.

If PIF walks away would FSG etc still invest in the PGAT when they know it could potentially be stripped of its prized assets at will.

Thats his leverage and the Rahm deal proved it.

 

[Backsticks]

Why would Yassir spend $450 million securing Jon Rahm on his tour and reportedly about to spend more on extra PGAT players going across if he was giving up control of Liv.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Liv may go exclusively down the team route in the far future but that will be with Yassir's approval.

Yassir just has to say in the negotiations if I don't get a deal that's suits me I will spend whatever has to be spent to take the majority of your best players and devalue your product.

If PIF walks away would FSG etc still invest in the PGAT when they know it could potentially be stripped of its prized assets at will.

Thats his leverage and the Rahm deal proved it.

PIF isnt LIV. It was their strategy into golf that failed, or at best met stalemate against the PGAT. The PIF pockets are clearly not infinitely deep. They signed n9body for over a year. And they didnt necessarily need Rahm. Slicing out 20 or so of the worlds top 50 - and none of the top 5 or 6 even necessary in that - and the rump of Rory and JT beating the Bezuidenhuits and Luke Lists would have been as hollow as a LIV win is now. But they didnt tempt those guys. List wouldnt cost 400 million.
But they didnt get them. There was very strong resistance. Rahm might even be a sort of all-in firepower bluff from PIF.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Make no mistake Liv is PIFs baby...

Guess we are going to know very soon with the deadline approaching.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Make no mistake Liv is PIFs baby...

Guess we are going to know very soon with the deadline approaching.

LiV is the mechanism the PIF are using to get a seat at the table of a major US sport. It’s a means to get into US business without having to buy shares on the quiet.

How ever anyone tries to spin the ‘positives’ of LiV. All they have is more money than everyone else, it’s the only reason any of the players are there. Considering how much they have spent to date, still having to spend half a bill on one new player shows how poor the product still is.

 

[Swango1980]

My mate asked a funny question today. He wondered if Rahm was the player who had to go to the toilet about 8 times per round. He'd heard that the PGAT has limited toilet facilities for players, and rumour was Rahm went to LIV for that reason.

That would be hilarious, if they were all going to LIV for the toilets, and all the PGAT needed to do was bring in more Portaloos

 

[BrianM]

LiV is the mechanism the PIF are using to get a seat at the table of a major US sport. It’s a means to get into US business without having to buy shares on the quiet.

How ever anyone tries to spin the ‘positives’ of LiV. All they have is more money than everyone else, it’s the only reason any of the players are there. Considering how much they have spent to date, still having to spend half a bill on one new player shows how poor the product still is.

To be fair that’s your opinion, nothing more.
Im pretty sure if you go to Australia they love the product.
Its a new business, you have to speculate to accumulate, although to us mere mortals the sums are massive, but it’s all relevant for the long term gain.