I GET SHOTS

[Deleted member 1147]

You do know that’s it’s not actually a new system, don’t you?
It’s been around for a while now!

 

[Crazyface]

My take on all this is this.
It is was it is don't worry about it just do what is required and your h/c will be adjusted. Job done.
Some people are really over thinking this

 

[IanMcC]

Now that Voyager EMH has ruined a few threads with his trawling, he is starting his own. I wish people would just ignore his clickbait rants.

 

[Region3]

That is very insightful.
Because net scores determined the movement of your handicap in the old system, many people are still very much focussed on their net scores.
But now it is solely gross scores that affect the movement of your handicap and people do not need to focus their thoughts on their net score in quite the same way.
You can play to or below your handicap, but your handicap might rise - 20th ago score was a good one.
This stills feels very odd to a lot of people. You can explain how and why it is happening, but they will still feel that it is odd until they adjust their thinking to the new system.
Then it will not feel odd.
Of course, if you never experienced the old system, then it won't feel odd either.

Denying that people feel this way, when it seems to me to be a fact that they do feel this way, the whole point of post#1, is why I keep asking for suggestions about how to help people adjust to the new system.
Many posts here seem to be suggesting that I think this is a very BIG DEAL in some way. I do not think it is a BIG DEAL.
But I know that people are still very much at odds with the new system.
Maybe no one posting on this thread has any problem, but many others do. This might include non-members of this forum who might be reading this.

I agree with you that plenty of people don’t understand the new system, but some people just aren’t cut out for understanding numbers and that’s fine. A computer or a notice board will tell them what to write in the handicap box on their card and they can just get on with life without needing to know.
One friend I have goes to pieces if he knows he’s on target for a nice cut so I don’t tell him any more, and another got so tied up with what he had to score that he now doesn’t ask and has even gone to the extreme of deleting the EG app from his phone and only sees his handicap when he signs in for a comp.

What I disagree with is that there is a need for people to stop thinking about getting shots and instead just concentrate on gross score, with the very rare (in my golf circle) exception of going out with the sole aim of returning a card for handicap.
If I’m in a singles competition I know roughly what nett score is needed to win or be in the places so that’s what I’m thinking about. Obviously I know what the gross would be to achieve that, but it starts with nett.
If it’s a team competition we have to know where who gets shots to figure out which scores to put on the card.
If I’m out playing social golf with my friends there’s always a match going on so again we need to know who gets shots on what holes.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I would like to thank everyone for participating in this thread.
And yes, I am thanking those of you who posted the scornful and indignant ones directly to me.
I can assure you that this doesn't make me angry or resentful.
If those were the things you felt strongly about, then I see no reason to prevent you from saying them.

Many posted their own thoughts about how well adjusted to the new system they are, but offered little or no help to those who are struggling to adjust.

The "Just tell them how it works, if they don't get it, that's their problem" approach, is not one that sits well with me.
Just part of my make-up really that I sympathise, empathise and wish to help people.
I also very much understand that many others do not have this approach and have little or no desire to be so inclined.
That is possibly the main outcome of this thread.

Meanwhile, there are still people out there who think the new system is very wrong and needs to be changed.
You can ignore them if you choose to.
I prefer not to ignore people.
I prefer to listen to them and engage with them.

You can not tell people how to think.
You can help people to change their thinking, if this would benefit them.
That was my job for 13 years before retirement - helping disaffected people whose lives were pretty miserable and they ended up in prison.
Not a job for the faint-hearted, those who are quick to anger or prefer to give up on people they see as simply no good.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Now that Voyager EMH has ruined a few threads with his trawling, he is starting his own. I wish people would just ignore his clickbait rants.

Not sure whether I'm supposed to ignore this.
I'll give it more thought.

 

[Backsticks]

Now that Voyager EMH has ruined a few threads with his trawling, he is starting his own. I wish people would just ignore his clickbait rants.

Not a clickbait or rant at all. Its an interesting and topical topic as we enter a 3rd season of WHS with people still debating and still various levels of understanding and misunderstanding of it.
(the clickbait threads are the pointless 'should I play a hybrid or 7 wood' type, or the 'how does the G430 Max compare with the LST. 23 handicapper', though that at least gives a laugh).

On the op : most of us here are playing mainly handicapped competitions of one sort. So I do feel I have to know how many shot I have on a given day. Thats what will tell me whether I am playing well and likely to have a score in the mix at the top of the leaderboard. As I play, I will know my net score or stableford points accordingly, and what holes the shots come on. I dont feel I couldnt. Gross score is incidental, even though I take it that is what will determine hc adjustments. But that is an after the fact incidental. What matters to me is my net position there and then.

 

[cliveb]

One observation: Unless you're playing in a medal competition, you need to know how many shots you get on each hole. If you don't, and insist on holing out every hole, you are part of the slow play problem.

 

[Voyager EMH]

What cliveb says above is very true.

Also true are these two scenarios.

I saw a player pick up his ball - he forgot it was a medal. Some time was wasted while this was explained. Replaced his ball under penalty and putted out.

Another player in a stableford had a 6-footer for a double bogey. Had to go back to his bag and check the index to see whether he had a shot at that hole.
It would have speeded play if he had taken the putt without delay as if it were a medal.
He is careful to check, because he knows that his course handicap is one shot more than his playing handicap.
I also understand why he did not want to take the putt with that element of uncertainty in his mind.

Being fully aware of all the indexes for each hole, before and during the play of each hole, and remembering the different options for medal and stableford is quite a task for some.
I don't think there is any right or wrong in this. It is merely a fact of the amateur game that we play.

 

[RichA]

I didn't have a handicap when I first played golf, so never knew the old system.
Since I restarted 3 years ago it's been WHS. I understand and like it. I've always been a numbers and maths guy, so it's easy to me.
Many of my friends are not maths guys. No number of explanations can help them understand how they can play better than their handicap but cause it to rise or vice versa. They also think I'm some kind of magician for being able to tell them what their HI will be the next morning without needing pen, paper and calculator.
As far as shots go, I find that those who don't know where they've got freebies are usually the same ones who leave their mobile phone on the car roof, forget to charge their trolley battery and don't know whether they're playing in a medal or a Stableford comp.
It's just a mental organisational thing. There are those of us who have our tees, ball marker and pitch-mark tool in their correct pockets, our watches set and ready to go and a scorecard to hand showing stroke indexes for anyone who isn't sure, before we even approach the 1st tee and there are those of us who haven't.
The disorganised guys are normally better at getting the beers in after the golf though.

I reckon you can get a pretty good idea of how someone loads their dishwasher by watching them on a golf course.

 

[John Evans 9]

I keep coming back to this topic as I’d really like to understand. There have a been a few key points made . WHS is not a new system any more. You have a handicap and you play golf just as always. There is no change to the actual playing of golf. WHS does not enable you to enjoy your game or liberate you. So the assertion that some of us are stuck in old ways of thinking is not relevant to the playing of golf.
I do understand that some people are mystified about handicap changes. Many golfers are not really interested about the detail of WHS calculations but it doesn’t necessarily affect their enjoyment of the game. A way to help these people might be to have an update to the EG app. It could for example, highlight the worst score of the eight counters to indicate that this score must be beaten for the handicap to be lowered and also highlight a counting score that is about to be dropped.
I am sure that there must be many ways of helping people to understand WHS. Refresher arithmetic courses at the local primary school being only one.
I still think the topic is inconsequential twaddle, but it’s been interesting twaddle.

 

[Voyager EMH]

WHS is a new system in the minds of many.
Some of those are still struggling to understand it.
They need more time to get used to it.

Learning apps on a smartphone and arithmetic lessons can show someone how it works.
Whether that improves the change in perception from the old system to the new system is another thing to be judged.

I got my first Saturday job in a shop in 1977. This was six years after decimalisation of our coinage.
A tiny few people would still convert 87p and the like back to shillings and pence, as that was still their perception of "how much money is that?"
They were not "wrong" to think that way, they were not stupid, they had learned that there were 100 new pennies in the pound.

Some people were fully adapted after a year or so and no longer thought about shillings and pence.
For others it took a lot longer to change their perception.
I feel the same is true today (with WHS) and believe that I have a reasonably good understanding of how people's minds work.

If you have no interest and care nothing for how other people think, then I understand that view as well. We are all different and we think in different ways.

I read a few posts on this thread that I considered to be inconsequential. I did not think they were twaddle, merely inconsequential.

 

[cliveb]

I got my first Saturday job in a shop in 1977. This was six years after decimalisation of our coinage.
A tiny few people would still convert 87p and the like back to shillings and pence, as that was still their perception of "how much money is that?"
They were not "wrong" to think that way, they were not stupid, they had learned that there were 100 new pennies in the pound.

Back in the seventies a guy I worked with related a tale of when, shortly after decimalisation, he visited a traditional hardware shop (think of the Two Ronnies "4 candles" sketch) and bought 10 items that were 7p each.
The girl behind the counter got out her conversion tables, changed 7p into shillings and pence, manually multiplied by 10, then converted back to decimal.
"That will be 68p, please".
"No, it's 70p".
"Hang on, I'll check", and she went through the process again, this time asking for 74p.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Back in the seventies a guy I worked with related a tale of when, shortly after decimalisation, he visited a traditional hardware shop (think of the Two Ronnies "4 candles" sketch) and bought 10 items that were 7p each.
The girl behind the counter got out her conversion tables, changed 7p into shillings and pence, manually multiplied by 10, then converted back to decimal.
"That will be 68p, please".
"No, it's 70p".
"Hang on, I'll check", and she went through the process again, this time asking for 74p.

Brilliant.
Sounds utterly daft, but I believe I understand why she did what she did.
In her mind, 1s 5d was the real amount for a single item and 7p was the new equivalent amount that had been notionally ascribed to the item.
I reckon that if decimalisation had not occurred, she would have had little problem in multiplying 1s 5d by ten in her head and getting the correct answer.
1s by ten is 10s
5d by ten is 50d, which is 4s 2d
Add together to get 14s 2d.
All done in the head in a few seconds.

14s 2d. (74 new pence then? Well no, 71p, but you may get my point)

She was not daft. She merely had a perception that had not completely adapted to the new system at that point. Happened a lot in my experience back then.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Beacause my handicap record lists my gross scores and for each its differential I believe I am starting to think more in terms of my gross score, as that is what matters as it drives my differentials and my HI. I used to think nett relative to par as nett under or over were what immediately impacted my exact handicap. As that is no more, i tend, as I go round, to not now mentally track my score relative to par.

 

[D-S]

. As that is no more, i tend, as I go round, to not now mentally track my score relative to par.

So how do you track your score as you go round, by a running total of your cumulative shots to that point?

 

[Voyager EMH]

In a comp, over the first few holes, I tend to be aware of how many over par I am without any deliberate mental effort to be tracking my score.
After nine holes I add up my score, because the person marking my card is usually doing the same and wants to have agreement.
If I feel things are going well through the back nine, I might look at the marker's column to see exactly what my score is with only 3 or 4 holes left to play.
During the round, I am mostly mentally focussed on the hole in play and not thinking about my overall score. That will be what it will be - as a result of being focussed on each individual hole.
I rarely think about my stableford score even when it is a stableford comp. That will be what it will be - is my thoughts about stableford points as well.
I used to think about my stableford score a lot more under the old system.
I have replaced those thoughts with thoughts about my golf score - which makes more sense to me when playing golf.
I think about my net score after I have completed my round - never before that moment.

 

[Backsticks]

I just dont think par is a relatable number for the vaste majority of golfers. They are neither good enough to be tending towards level, or, are playing handicap competition, so may as well keep any mental score in that format, as that is what matters for that round. Stableford in the main. Or v-par : actual shot over par has no meaning in it. Even in medal play, I, and I think most, still keep track of their relative score, allocating shots according to index, to have a position relative to their hc as to how their round is going.
Over par is for scratch competition, and for low single digit players or better.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So how do you track your score as you go round, by a running total of your cumulative shots to that point?

I‘m thinking that most of the time I don’t really.

I’ve obviously got a good sense of how well I’m doing, but quite often I’ll come off the course not knowing my gross score or stableford total precisely. I might sometimes as I’m playing do a quick check back in my head and add up, but I prefer to really keep ‘in the moment’, playing the hole I’m on and putting what I’ve played into the back of my mind, and part of putting it behind me is not adding up my score as I go.

And doing so I really look to avoid having thoughts such as the common previous one ‘I’ve got to par last three holes to play within my buffer’, or today…’two pars for an 80’, or ‘four pts in last two holes for a 38’. I just play the holes out, to the best of my ability but not pressurising myself to play too risky shots. Obviously there will be occasional circumstances in which it is worth ‘going for it’ - maybe a comp final, but I can’t think of one I’ve had yet under the current system.

In fact the last post by @Voyager EMH describes the approach I am trying to discipline myself to pretty much to a tee.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I just dont think par is a relatable number for the vaste majority of golfers. They are neither good enough to be tending towards level, or, are playing handicap competition, so may as well keep any mental score in that format, as that is what matters for that round. Stableford in the main. Or v-par : actual shot over par has no meaning in it. Even in medal play, I, and I think most, still keep track of their relative score, allocating shots according to index, to have a position relative to their hc as to how their round is going.
Over par is for scratch competition, and for low single digit players or better.

How do you feel about keeping track of one's gross score - ie one's golf score?