Busted. A Cheat Caught

[garyinderry]

How many times did the guy win in roll ups in the original cheating case in this thread?

Surely when the guy was buying rounds and people were asking him what he shot someone would have clicked that one week this fella was off 9 then the next thing he's cleaning up off 13.

Was he also getting cut a shot for each win and still winning?

Can't help that think there was some people asleep at the wheel on this one?

Either those that played with him regularly, the handicap secretary at the club or the guy who does the handicaps for the roll up.


I also can't understand how this guy was able to rock up to the roll up he had cheated the week pervious.
Surely some kind of club suspension would be in order to quell the anger felt by the roll up group. A meeting should have been held with him and them before he was able to tee it up with them again. A time for him to explain himself and ask for a kind of forgiveness.

The whole thing seems a bit of a mess.

 

[Orikoru]

Ooooooh hot off the press!

A player has been caught falsifying his handicap at our club this week!

Known to be a bit dodgy, Player X is a single digit handicap player who rarely manages to play to his handicap in competitions and is very well known to be terrible at away courses. He's a solid putter, decent short game player but his long game isn't even close to what you'd expect from a single digit golfer. Player X used to be our competition secretary but lost the role a few months ago due to being spotted cheating, moving his ball to better lies (observed by 2 players in another group - not his own). He's also the biggest brag in the whole golf club about his single figure status despite no one really thinking he is one.

On Friday Player X was playing in a friendly roll up with 7 other golfers.
All golfers signed in to our PSI system.
Player A was paired up with Player X and knowing his history, decided to mark his own card (in secret) for the 4 ball they played in. After each hole, as normal they all recorded their scores and announced them, nothing funny here.
Players submit scores upon return into PSI
Player X had a poor day and high 20 points and a GROSS 88.

Saturday morning competition - Players A notices that player X's handicap is lower than the day before, despite the high scoring GP card going on. Logs into England golf and sees that Player X has recorded the previous round as a GROSS 80!

Player A then confirms this with the other two pp's from Friday, plus his poor point return with the other 4 ball involved in the roll up and they decide they must inform the club that an incorrect score was entered.

Handicap sec has researched Player X's handicap record - and even at a glance myself I can see his best golf is always played casually on a Friday - some great scores in there - just scores that have never actually happened

Player X now in limbo, committee discussing what actions to take next

Always baffles me when people cheat to get lower handicaps. You can understand the motive in the OP, getting higher to try and win and make some money. But imagine being known as a cheat when you didn't even gain any benefit from it - just to try and brag about a handicap you have no hope of playing to. The mind boggles.

 

[Bdill93]

Always baffles me when people cheat to get lower handicaps. You can understand the motive in the OP, getting higher to try and win and make some money. But imagine being known as a cheat when you didn't even gain any benefit from it - just to try and brag about a handicap you have no hope of playing to. The mind boggles.

Literally his personality summed up perfectly and you've never even met him!

Hot off the press too - my dad has just messaged me to say Player X has resigned his membership with immediate effect.

He's gone.

 

[Swango1980]

Always baffles me when people cheat to get lower handicaps. You can understand the motive in the OP, getting higher to try and win and make some money. But imagine being known as a cheat when you didn't even gain any benefit from it - just to try and brag about a handicap you have no hope of playing to. The mind boggles.

It may help them qualify for events that simply require a low handicap? Maybe it forces them into the club scratch team, particularly if the team selector isn't fully aware that they are cheating, and thinks they must have a good game in there somewhere?

 

[Bdill93]

It may help them qualify for events that simply require a low handicap? Maybe it forces them into the club scratch team, particularly if the team selector isn't fully aware that they are cheating, and thinks they must have a good game in there somewhere?

He's steady at our course, but were a very short course and its easy to score well.

We have a "low handicap" team but don't enter scratch events.

 

[Orikoru]

It may help them qualify for events that simply require a low handicap? Maybe it forces them into the club scratch team, particularly if the team selector isn't fully aware that they are cheating, and thinks they must have a good game in there somewhere?

Yeah, but after doing all that to get in those teams you obviously can't back it up, so surely it would be embarrassing? I just can't get the mindset.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How many times did the guy win in roll ups in the original cheating case in this thread?

Surely when the guy was buying rounds and people were asking him what he shot someone would have clicked that one week this fella was off 9 then the next thing he's cleaning up off 13.

Was he also getting cut a shot for each win and still winning?

Can't help that think there was some people asleep at the wheel on this one?

Either those that played with him regularly, the handicap secretary at the club or the guy who does the handicaps for the roll up.


I also can't understand how this guy was able to rock up to the roll up he had cheated the week pervious.
Surely some kind of club suspension would be in order to quell the anger felt by the roll up group. A meeting should have been held with him and them before he was able to tee it up with them again. A time for him to explain himself and ask for a kind of forgiveness.

The whole thing seems a bit of a mess.

Won once in the Saturday roll up I run. No idea about the other weekend group as I don't play in it. Why would people clock a change. We simply ask what you are off on the 1st tee to mark a group card and assume people are playing off the correct amount. In my roll up as we have cuts in force for winners I always check the mark they played off against what their handicap on the day with a roll up cut taken before paying out. The club have followed internal procedures apparently and I can't comment on why they decided not to ban or suspend as I don't know

 

[clubchamp98]

Agree. If I understand this correctly, a player can sign up for a GP card on the PSI, play, recording scores on a physical scorecard which is attested by a playing partner and then enter the round into the PSI when completed. At this point the player can input the incorrect scores. End of, no further checking takes place.
Because it’s a GP score, and not a competition therefore no results are published, no one will see what was entered.
So, no ‘peer review’.

If that’s the case how is the comittiee supposed to check the accuracy of this card?
That imo is very dodgy.

Just can’t understand anyone making a handicap they can’t play to.
The other way yes but why lower baffles me.

 

[clubchamp98]

Literally his personality summed up perfectly and you've never even met him!

Hot off the press too - my dad has just messaged me to say Player X has resigned his membership with immediate effect.

He's gone.

At least he’s got that right!

 

[SteveW86]

As usual, making massive assumptions. Explained fully on here disciplinary process has taken place which is why there is an EG penalty against the handicap for 3 months and the club have taken their own internal actions.

Got to agree its been handled poorly by allowing him to continue playing. A lot of the comments you have made have been very negative towards this guy (rightly so), as a member I would be disappointed that the club have put you and the other members in the position of having to play with him.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Got to agree its been handled poorly by allowing him to continue playing. A lot of the comments you have made have been very negative towards this guy (rightly so), as a member I would be disappointed that the club have put you and the other members in the position of having to play with him.

If the club allows him to play he can book in where he likes. We as members then have the issue as you point out that we can't not let him play. Competitions will be easier. I will ask to be moved or simply not play the comp

 

[SteveW86]

If the club allows him to play he can book in where he likes. We as members then have the issue as you point out that we can't not let him play. Competitions will be easier. I will ask to be moved or simply not play the comp

Do you not have an issue that the club have put you (and other members) in that position?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

And yet many other on here seem to have the same system of using a PSI, I don't think that in itself is the issue.

I didn't know it wasn't checked etc. he certainly would have known!

The PSI for most I have seen is just for comp entry scores


GP entry is via

Eg app.
IG app

And we used to have the old scorecard but we removed that now

No GP scores can be entered via the PSI

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Got to agree its been handled poorly by allowing him to continue playing. A lot of the comments you have made have been very negative towards this guy (rightly so), as a member I would be disappointed that the club have put you and the other members in the position of having to play with him.

The situation hasn’t been resolved - a proven known cheat still playing at the club

An “eg penalty” - no idea what that is but there appears to be nothing done

And he clearly doesn’t seem bothered by continuing to play

And also what about the person signing the cards

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The situation hasn’t been resolved - a proven known cheat still playing at the club

An “eg penalty” - no idea what that is but there appears to be nothing done

And he clearly doesn’t seem bothered by continuing to play

And also what about the person signing the cards

Love the way you seem to know all the answers to all the problems.

Yes the situation has been dealt with, yes members aren't happy, but unless it is taken up by the members with the GM nothing will change. My understanding is the main group he play with are thinking about it but as he hasn't played with my Saturday group for ages and I think he has had his card marked from that perspective not to bother booking I don't feel the need to follow it up at this stage. The club have gone through their process whether we are happy with the result or not and if the others want to kick off I'll support them but I am not going instigate anything from my groups perspective

As for the people marking cards this was addressed very early on in the thread and one who is new to golf has been educated about their responsibilities as a marker. Seems harsh to penalise someone that knew no better and was told "everyone does it"

 

[clubchamp98]

Do you not have an issue that the club have put you (and other members) in that position?

I agree.
The club has passed on the responsibility to members.
Shows how weak some committees are.

 

[3 jabber]

Got to agree its been handled poorly by allowing him to continue playing. A lot of the comments you have made have been very negative towards this guy (rightly so), as a member I would be disappointed that the club have put you and the other members in the position of having to play with him.

I've still not seen ANYTHING in the national press or on the BBC about this, I'm beginning to think it's a hoax

 

[clubchamp98]

I've still not seen ANYTHING in the national press or on the BBC about this, I'm beginning to think it's a hoax

That’s because it’s all about Strictly and that handoff.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I can see where you’re coming from, however we are talking about something planned out and with premeditated actions over a period of time.We aren’t talking about a spur of the moment one off action. If it were, I could possibly go along with your apology and forgiveness line. But since it’s not a spur of the moment one off, I feel he should be showing contrition and remorse to everyone and then after a similar amount of time as his devious actions have been going on only then could forgiveness be considered.
Let’s not also forget that he didn’t volunteer his cheating, he was caught out.

I’m actually talking about two things - a ‘spiritual’ forgiveness that every one of us has available for when someone has hurt us in some way - that does not require remorse or amends by the perpetrator of the hurt, though that can happen if the forgiveness is given verbally - but instead can often relieve the sufferer of his own anger and resentment. And I’ll note that an individual’s forgiveness is no substitute for any ‘official’ reprimand or penalty that the appropriate authorities or governing bodies might apply - they can both happen if needs must.

Separately, we are quick to judge - often when we do not know the full facts or the context and background of the perpetrator of the hurt. That our culprit here seems to have gone about systematically cheating the system and his golfing companions, when being found out is highly likely, does rather make it seem that there has been something more going on outside of the club at a personal level that has triggered the behaviour. Though maybe he’s just a cheat, charlatan, rogue and swindler in life…

I don’t know. Just suggesting alternatives to what seems to have transpired that might ease the situation for all.

Anyway…I know that on this I am a bit of a voice in the wilderness so shan’t go further.

 

[Tashyboy]

I am hoping the reception he got yesterday will prompt a mind shift and he got the message. Waiting to see if he tries to flit to other roll up groups including the Saturday one I run. Very simple answer awaits

Would that answer be “ what’s your handicap”