Busted. A Cheat Caught

[3 jabber]

This all smells a bit fishy to me.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Must admit at our roll ups although very modest sums of money are involved people not buying rounds cost me far more money than anyone cheating could do.

The one this guy played in was £5 a head and usually 16-24 depending on time of year. Winner takes all but you have to buy the whole field a drink (those that are still in the clubhouse) so it does take a big chunk out. They got that idea from our Sunday roll up which has been doing that for years. The Saturday one I run is £3 with around 16-20 and we pay 1st and 2nd and cut 2 shots and 1 accordingly for the next 3 times they play

 

[Orikoru]

The one this guy played in was £5 a head and usually 16-24 depending on time of year. Winner takes all but you have to buy the whole field a drink (those that are still in the clubhouse) so it does take a big chunk out. They got that idea from our Sunday roll up which has been doing that for years. The Saturday one I run is £3 with around 16-20 and we pay 1st and 2nd and cut 2 shots and 1 accordingly for the next 3 times they play

If I was leading I'd be tanking the last few holes so I don't accidentally win and end up out of pocket!

 

[clubchamp98]

If I was leading I'd be tanking the last few holes so I don't accidentally win and end up out of pocket!

That depends how much a pint is at your course.
More than £5 and your losing money.

 

[Swango1980]

That depends how much a pint is at your course.
More than £5 and your losing money.

And maybe not everyone wants a pint? Soft drink, coffee or no drink at all if getting off early

 

[Junior]

There has been a lot of discussion on here about people manipulating their handicaps and how easy it is especially via the EGU app. Sadly we have had a case at my club that came to light at the weekend. Chap has recently one a board knockout event by a massive score. His opponent felt something wasn't right given his golf on the day vs recent form according to his handicap and did some digging. Turns out this chap had been putting fictitious cards in at an away course to artificially manipulate his handicap upwards. Losing finalist lodged a complaint which the club took to the local Union (BBO) and after investigation the guy held his hands up. Been stripped of the event, had the handicap de-activated for a minimum of 3 months although the final sanctions not yet finalised. The other thing off the back of this is someone must have attested the scores so they would seem to be as complicit and dishonest and so it brings into question their own integrity about their handicapping. Was it a two way street? That bit hasn't come to light

It isn't just the board event though. he has taken money in our Saturday roll up as well as from his usual Sunday roll up as well so essentially playing off a false handicap and mugging off his mates. My roll up group has a Ryder cup two day match against the group he normally plays in for which he had qualified to play. We have flatly told them he's not playing or it isn't on.

Most of the guys I spoke to thought in a way it was a shame as he's actually a really nice guy and no-one can understand the logic behind doing something as blatant and stupid as this. A lot of us were surprised he showed his face yesterday and played with his usual rollup group although I don't think he was actually taking part, more just playing. Not sure I could show my face and personally I think he must have the skin of a rhino to try and front it out.

The big issue of course is what happens once his handicap suspension ends. He is now permanently tagged as a cheat and I am sure there won't be many wanting to tee it up in club competitions going forward. I guess it is a sad indication of how easy the system is to manipulate but I can't understand anyone feeling the need so desperately to win that they need to cheat the system. I am sure more stuff will come out about it and it has definitely caused some conversations at the club and left a bitter taste for many

WHS has a lot of good points but this is one of the bad ones. It’s enabled cheats to manipulate handicaps quicker via away scores. Pre WHS you used to have to submit the card to the club handicap sec. We have a couple juniors who have gone the other way. They started the season off 12/13 and are now off around 2 or 3. When they play in the gents comps they’ve never broke 82.

Sorry, didn’t want to turn this into a whs thread but thought it relevant. This guy will have some cheek if he stays at Ascot. Has anyone spoken to him and asked for an explanation?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If I was leading I'd be tanking the last few holes so I don't accidentally win and end up out of pocket!

People are usually clearing £15-30 depending on the size of the field. No-one is ever out of pocket

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cold yesterday but very frosty for our "friend". Was allowed to play in his usual group (technically he hasn't a playing ban, although the majority didn't want him anywhere near their group as they are getting dragged down as well as a result) and straight out of the clubhouse after without a word to anyone

Does he not have a close (or closer) friend in the rollup, or indeed someone willing and with good intent, who can take him aside and advise him - in a conciliatory and concerned way (and not hostile), what he needs to do to start making amends to the rollup, and indeed the club, if he wants to continue playing in the rollup and not be ostracised by the members and find himself having to leave the club. While he remains apparently unrepentant, things will be very difficult for him and the tension and bad atmosphere in the group will be heightened.

I (obviously) do not know the personal background and circumstances of the guy and indeed any personal context for why he acted as he did, indeed he may not have felt able to share any such matters with the club officials - such things might come out in conversation with someone he knows well or who shows concern rather than hostility towards him. At the moment he is in a hole and by not showing remorse he continues to dig. He needs someone to help him stop digging and get out of the hole, for everyones benefit.

But maybe that’s just me

 

[SteveW86]

If I was leading I'd be tanking the last few holes so I don't accidentally win and end up out of pocket!

Aren’t there rules against intentionally playing badly?

Seems strange to openly say you’d do that in a thread about cheating

 

[Mel Smooth]

I guarantee - 99% of golfers have intentionally cheated at some point in their lives. Brushed the sand in a bunker, improved a lie on a practice swing, and the pick, clean and replace rule that we have to have to maintain handicap scoring - yeah right!!

Of course, we'd all deny it if asked face to face by a committee member.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Does he not have a close (or closer) friend in the rollup, or indeed someone willing and with good intent, who can take him aside and advise him - in a conciliatory and concerned way (and not hostile), what he needs to do to start making amends to the rollup, and indeed the club, if he wants to continue playing in the rollup and not be ostracised by the members and find himself having to leave the club. While he remains apparently unrepentant, things will be very difficult for him and the tension and bad atmosphere in the group will be heightened.

I (obviously) do not know the personal background and circumstances of the guy and indeed any personal context for why he acted as he did, indeed he may not have felt able to share any such matters with the club officials - such things might come out in conversation with someone he knows well or who shows concern rather than hostility towards him. At the moment he is in a hole and by not showing remorse he continues to dig. He needs someone to help him stop digging and get out of the hole, for everyones benefit.

But maybe that’s just me

Sorry but a lot of our older roll up members are quite black and white in their opinions and so their minds are made up. A lot of the younger guys in the other roll up are totally hacked off with his actions and the damage it has caused to their groups reputations, and to some degree tarnished those that played with him regularly, as there is always guilt by association. At this moment in time I would say 99% of those it has affected think had he put one erroneous card in, it could be called the "error or judgement" he put in his whatsapp apology to a midweek roll up he played in (and we have no idea why he's apologised to them and not his usual golfing mates) but to do it over a period of time, it is nothing more than cold calculating cheating and so he's brought it all on himself. Made his bed and all that

 

[3 jabber]

I guarantee - 99% of golfers have intentionally cheated at some point in their lives. Brushed the sand in a bunker, improved a lie on a practice swing, and the pick, clean and replace rule that we have to have to maintain handicap scoring - yeah right!!

Of course, we'd all deny it if asked face to face by a committee member.

Speak for yourself. Yes I've cheated but it's because of not knowing a particular rule at the time but I have never intentionally cheated

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Speak for yourself. Yes I've cheated but it's because of not knowing a particular rule at the time but I have never intentionally cheated

A world of difference between proceeding thinking you are doing the right thing and cheating due to not knowing a rule (usually only do it once if you get hit with the penalty as well) and deliberately manipulating a handicap for financial gain

 

[Orikoru]

That depends how much a pint is at your course.
More than £5 and your losing money.

It's £5.58 a pint of Moretti with members discount! Better hope a lot of people want cups of tea I guess.

People are usually clearing £15-30 depending on the size of the field. No-one is ever out of pocket

As above - I guess a lot of them drink tea then?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry but a lot of our older roll up members are quite black and white in their opinions and so their minds are made up. A lot of the younger guys in the other roll up are totally hacked off with his actions and the damage it has caused to their groups reputations, and to some degree tarnished those that played with him regularly, as there is always guilt by association. At this moment in time I would say 99% of those it has affected think had he put one erroneous card in, it could be called the "error or judgement" he put in his whatsapp apology to a midweek roll up he played in (and we have no idea why he's apologised to them and not his usual golfing mates) but to do it over a period of time, it is nothing more than cold calculating cheating and so he's brought it all on himself. Made his bed and all that

I’ll be honest in saying that that is all rather sad - understandable, but sad. We can all change our minds if we so choose, perhaps if we come to understand a situation better and willing to accept being just a little less judgemental and certain.

My suggestion was simply whether there was someone who he could confide in, that could then help him open up to remorse and making amends to those he has hurt. All those who are angry and resentful with and about him and what he has done will hold that anger and resentment in their heads - to their own detriment.

Anyway…I guess it is just me…

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I guarantee - 99% of golfers have intentionally cheated at some point in their lives. Brushed the sand in a bunker, improved a lie on a practice swing, and the pick, clean and replace rule that we have to have to maintain handicap scoring - yeah right!!

Of course, we'd all deny it if asked face to face by a committee member.

Would speak for yourself on that respect especially when stating “intentionally” cheating

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It's £5.58 a pint of Moretti with members discount! Better hope a lot of people want cups of tea I guess.


As above - I guess a lot of them drink tea then?

Think the midweek tea club is only £2 and paying several places. San Miguel is £4.67 after members discount and bearing in mind not everyone stays or comes in after playing the Sunday roll up still a good amount of profit

 

[Swango1980]

Think the midweek tea club is only £2 and paying several places. San Miguel is £4.67 after members discount and bearing in mind not everyone stays or comes in after playing the Sunday roll up still a good amount of profit

If this handicap cheat was winning roll ups, I'd encourage everyone to buy a large glass of champagne

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Anyone caught cheating at any club would be immediately suspended from golf pending an investigation - it’s the most sensible way of going about things , take him out of the situation - follow the disciplinary process - all seems the “incident” very poorly handled

 

[clubchamp98]

And maybe not everyone wants a pint? Soft drink, coffee or no drink at all if getting off early

As long as your up a few quid that’s ok imo.

The problem with a lot of golfers is they put their reputation on the line to win a few quid.

Very sad episode in this case.