Busted. A Cheat Caught

[Bunkermagnet]

I’ll be honest in saying that that is all rather sad - understandable, but sad. We can all change our minds if we so choose, perhaps if we come to understand a situation better and willing to accept being just a little less judgemental and certain.

My suggestion was simply whether there was someone who he could confide in, that could then help him open up to remorse and making amends to those he has hurt. All those who are angry and resentful with and about him and what he has done will hold that anger and resentment in their heads - to their own detriment.

Anyway…I guess it is just me…

I can see where you’re coming from, however we are talking about something planned out and with premeditated actions over a period of time.We aren’t talking about a spur of the moment one off action. If it were, I could possibly go along with your apology and forgiveness line. But since it’s not a spur of the moment one off, I feel he should be showing contrition and remorse to everyone and then after a similar amount of time as his devious actions have been going on only then could forgiveness be considered.
Let’s not also forget that he didn’t volunteer his cheating, he was caught out.

 

[Bdill93]

Ooooooh hot off the press!

A player has been caught falsifying his handicap at our club this week!

Known to be a bit dodgy, Player X is a single digit handicap player who rarely manages to play to his handicap in competitions and is very well known to be terrible at away courses. He's a solid putter, decent short game player but his long game isn't even close to what you'd expect from a single digit golfer. Player X used to be our competition secretary but lost the role a few months ago due to being spotted cheating, moving his ball to better lies (observed by 2 players in another group - not his own). He's also the biggest brag in the whole golf club about his single figure status despite no one really thinking he is one.

On Friday Player X was playing in a friendly roll up with 7 other golfers.
All golfers signed in to our PSI system.
Player A was paired up with Player X and knowing his history, decided to mark his own card (in secret) for the 4 ball they played in. After each hole, as normal they all recorded their scores and announced them, nothing funny here.
Players submit scores upon return into PSI
Player X had a poor day and high 20 points and a GROSS 88.

Saturday morning competition - Players A notices that player X's handicap is lower than the day before, despite the high scoring GP card going on. Logs into England golf and sees that Player X has recorded the previous round as a GROSS 80!

Player A then confirms this with the other two pp's from Friday, plus his poor point return with the other 4 ball involved in the roll up and they decide they must inform the club that an incorrect score was entered.

Handicap sec has researched Player X's handicap record - and even at a glance myself I can see his best golf is always played casually on a Friday - some great scores in there - just scores that have never actually happened

Player X now in limbo, committee discussing what actions to take next

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Ooooooh hot off the press!

A player has been caught falsifying his handicap at our club this week!

Known to be a bit dodgy, Player X is a single digit handicap player who rarely manages to play to his handicap in competitions and is very well known to be terrible at away courses. He's a solid putter, decent short game player but his long game isn't even close to what you'd expect from a single digit golfer. Player X used to be our competition secretary but lost the role a few months ago due to being spotted cheating, moving his ball to better lies (observed by 2 players in another group - not his own). He's also the biggest brag in the whole golf club about his single figure status despite no one really thinking he is one.

On Friday Player X was playing in a friendly roll up with 7 other golfers.
All golfers signed in to our PSI system.
Player A was paired up with Player X and knowing his history, decided to mark his own card (in secret) for the 4 ball they played in. After each hole, as normal they all recorded their scores and announced them, nothing funny here.
Players submit scores upon return into PSI
Player X had a poor day and high 20 points and a GROSS 88.

Saturday morning competition - Players A notices that player X's handicap is lower than the day before, despite the high scoring GP card going on. Logs into England golf and sees that Player X has recorded the previous round as a GROSS 80!

Player A then confirms this with the other two pp's from Friday, plus his poor point return with the other 4 ball involved in the roll up and they decide they must inform the club that an incorrect score was entered.

Handicap sec has researched Player X's handicap record - and even at a glance myself I can see his best golf is always played casually on a Friday - some great scores in there - just scores that have never actually happened

Player X now in limbo, committee discussing what actions to take next

Simple question

Who signed off player X’s card

so the PSI is used for roll ups ? It’s set up for a comp ?

 

[Swango1980]

Ooooooh hot off the press!

A player has been caught falsifying his handicap at our club this week!

Known to be a bit dodgy, Player X is a single digit handicap player who rarely manages to play to his handicap in competitions and is very well known to be terrible at away courses. He's a solid putter, decent short game player but his long game isn't even close to what you'd expect from a single digit golfer. Player X used to be our competition secretary but lost the role a few months ago due to being spotted cheating, moving his ball to better lies (observed by 2 players in another group - not his own). He's also the biggest brag in the whole golf club about his single figure status despite no one really thinking he is one.

On Friday Player X was playing in a friendly roll up with 7 other golfers.
All golfers signed in to our PSI system.
Player A was paired up with Player X and knowing his history, decided to mark his own card (in secret) for the 4 ball they played in. After each hole, as normal they all recorded their scores and announced them, nothing funny here.
Players submit scores upon return into PSI
Player X had a poor day and high 20 points and a GROSS 88.

Saturday morning competition - Players A notices that player X's handicap is lower than the day before, despite the high scoring GP card going on. Logs into England golf and sees that Player X has recorded the previous round as a GROSS 80!

Player A then confirms this with the other two pp's from Friday, plus his poor point return with the other 4 ball involved in the roll up and they decide they must inform the club that an incorrect score was entered.

Handicap sec has researched Player X's handicap record - and even at a glance myself I can see his best golf is always played casually on a Friday - some great scores in there - just scores that have never actually happened

Player X now in limbo, committee discussing what actions to take next

Ohhh, the floodgates have now opened. This could be amateur golf's equivalent of the Me To Movement

 

[Bdill93]

Simple question

Who signed off player X’s card

so the PSI is used for roll ups ? It’s set up for a comp ?

GP card's are able to submit via the PSI...

 

[Swango1980]

Simple question

Who signed off player X’s card

so the PSI is used for roll ups ? It’s set up for a comp ?

I don't think anyone needs to sign off the round on the PSI terminal? I know a few people who use the terminal to enter GP scores. I think they select their marker, but the marker is never ever notified. Same for competitions as well (hence we submit physical signed cards)

 

[Bdill93]

I don't think anyone needs to sign off the round on the PSI terminal? I know a few people who use the terminal to enter GP scores. I think they select their marker, but the marker is never ever notified. Same for competitions as well (hence we submit physical signed cards)

Yeah, this - no sign off required on the PSI.

Always thought that a bit weird but never questioned it!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Anyone caught cheating at any club would be immediately suspended from golf pending an investigation - it’s the most sensible way of going about things , take him out of the situation - follow the disciplinary process - all seems the “incident” very poorly handled

As usual, making massive assumptions. Explained fully on here disciplinary process has taken place which is why there is an EG penalty against the handicap for 3 months and the club have taken their own internal actions.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

GP card's are able to submit via the PSI...

And no one needs to sign that off ?

That allows single players to put a card in ?

Don’t they have to submit the card as well

 

[MACM85]

And no one needs to sign that off ?

That allows single players to put a card in ?

Don’t they have to submit the card as well

If like my course we can use the PSI for general play. We make a note of who we marked a card for and who our marker was. The card is then submitted. Obviously would depend in the handicap secretary checks all cards.

However if you were to have an individual of the group submit a card but the others didn't then it is just that one single card as proof and nothing to cross reference it to.

 

[woofers]

Yeah, this - no sign off required on the PSI.

Always thought that a bit weird but never questioned it!

Agree. If I understand this correctly, a player can sign up for a GP card on the PSI, play, recording scores on a physical scorecard which is attested by a playing partner and then enter the round into the PSI when completed. At this point the player can input the incorrect scores. End of, no further checking takes place.
Because it’s a GP score, and not a competition therefore no results are published, no one will see what was entered.
So, no ‘peer review’.

 

[woofers]

We’ve switched off GP cards on IG due to these shortcomings.
You can only submit a GP card at my club through the EG App or, as some of the Seniors won’t or don’t want the App, register in the Pro Shop before playing and then return the card to them.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

If like my course we can use the PSI for general play. We make a note of who we marked a card for and who our marker was. The card is then submitted. Obviously would depend in the handicap secretary checks all cards.

However if you were to have an individual of the group submit a card but the others didn't then it is just that one single card as proof and nothing to cross reference it to.

It’s just opening it all up to abuse

Our PSI is for comps only - GP scores are only via the IG app or EG app where you have at least someone confirms your score

 

[Bdill93]

Agree. If I understand this correctly, a player can sign up for a GP card on the PSI, play, recording scores on a physical scorecard which is attested by a playing partner and then enter the round into the PSI when completed. At this point the player can input the incorrect scores. End of, no further checking takes place.
Because it’s a GP score, and not a competition therefore no results are published, no one will see what was entered.
So, no ‘peer review’.

My assumption would be exactly this - I have used the GP entry a few times when I've played in the Sunday Roll Up (cant play in it if you don't start a GP round) and up until April or so, we didnt even have to name who marked our cards etc.

Recently we have had to enter whos cards we marked etc. but as you suggest, I've never been notified of my name being used/ no further checks.

 

[Bdill93]

It’s just opening it all up to abuse

Our PSI is for comps only - GP scores are only via the IG app or EG app where you have at least someone confirms your score

What do old boys without smartphones do?

Think that's why our PSI is in play...

But as you say, massively open to abuse and as a former comp sec his knowledge of that would be far greater than anyone else's in the clubs...

 

[Arthur Wedge]

What do old boys without smartphones do?

Think that's why our PSI is in play...

But as you say, massively open to abuse and as a former comp sec his knowledge of that would be far greater than anyone else's in the clubs...

Then they put it in on a paper score card

Any score put in the PSI needs to have some sort of check assigned to it

And how many these days don’t have a smart phone

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If like my course we can use the PSI for general play. We make a note of who we marked a card for and who our marker was. The card is then submitted. Obviously would depend in the handicap secretary checks all cards.

However if you were to have an individual of the group submit a card but the others didn't then it is just that one single card as proof and nothing to cross reference it to.

Yep we can use PSI or the my EG app. PSI lets you put a marker in but no cross reference. At least my EG sends an email to someone to approve

 

[Bdill93]

Then they put it in on a paper score card

Any score put in the PSI needs to have some sort of check assigned to it

And how many these days don’t have a smart phone

Honestly a fair few at my club don't - but were a very cheap golf club and some of them aren't very wealthy either. Oldest member is 89, he aint touching an iPhone

I agree about checks, but its not my job to implement them.

The paper scorecard marked by Player A is, in the end, the evidence against him (plus the account of 7 other golfers that he didnt get 30+ points and gross 80)

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Honestly a fair few at my club don't - but were a very cheap golf club and some of them aren't very wealthy either. Oldest member is 89, he aint touching an iPhone

I agree about checks, but its not my job to implement them.

The paper scorecard marked by Player A is, in the end, the evidence against him (plus the account of 7 other golfers that he didnt get 30+ points and gross 80)

Seems ridiculous to pretty much have an enabler to allow people to cheat

 

[Bdill93]

Seems ridiculous to pretty much have an enabler to allow people to cheat

And yet many other on here seem to have the same system of using a PSI, I don't think that in itself is the issue.

I didn't know it wasn't checked etc. he certainly would have known!