Have you ever played with a known handicap cheat?

[Biggleswade Blue]

Ultimately theyre cheating themselves out of shots and will become irrelevant in competitive play.. Vanity caps will never go away.

However, If I was off 3.8 and saw people cheating the system to bring down their handicap to single digits it would probably annoy me too... You worked hard to get there scoring in comps - theyre just cherry picking great social rounds...

I'm in an improvement phase - and got told off by an opponent in a match a few weeks ago for my handicap not being low enough - even though we only won 1 up on the last. I'm really keen to get ot down (28 at the moment) I've been submitting 9 and 18 hole general play rounds every opportunity I get - and follow the rules to the letter (pre-register, score goes in good or bad, only do it when playing with a proper player who will attest my score) - as that is bringing it down more quickly than if I waited until I was free to play in competitition. Apparently I'm in the top 5% of number of cards submitted this year at the club. My oponent told me it was not right and that I shouldn't have those GP rounds but should have more competitions (6 of my 20 are competitions). Of course if I did that, first, I would need to take more time of work to play when comps are on and second I'm more likely to get a silly good score in a comp and upset everyone there (been there, done that, rubbish feeling that completely tainted the win and, to be honest, has put me off comps for a bit). Not quite sure what I ought to do.

My partner in the match pointed out that if I did what was suggested, and/or we'd played the match a few weeks ago, I'd have had an extra 4 shots! there was not much response to that, nor to my observation that our winning the match 1 up on the last is perhaps an indication that the handicap system was working pretty well.

 

[Neilds]

I'm in an improvement phase - and got told off by an opponent in a match a few weeks ago for my handicap not being low enough - even though we only won 1 up on the last. I'm really keen to get ot down (28 at the moment) I've been submitting 9 and 18 hole general play rounds every opportunity I get - and follow the rules to the letter (pre-register, score goes in good or bad, only do it when playing with a proper player who will attest my score) - as that is bringing it down more quickly than if I waited until I was free to play in competitition. Apparently I'm in the top 5% of number of cards submitted this year at the club. My oponent told me it was not right and that I shouldn't have those GP rounds but should have more competitions (6 of my 20 are competitions). Of course if I did that, first, I would need to take more time of work to play when comps are on and second I'm more likely to get a silly good score in a comp and upset everyone there (been there, done that, rubbish feeling that completely tainted the win and, to be honest, has put me off comps for a bit). Not quite sure what I ought to do.

My partner in the match pointed out that if I did what was suggested, and/or we'd played the match a few weeks ago, I'd have had an extra 4 shots! there was not much response to that, nor to my observation that our winning the match 1 up on the last is perhaps an indication that the handicap system was working pretty well.

You are doing nothing wrong, some people will look for any excuse to blame the opponent for their own bad play
I wonder what the result would be if we did a poll on here which asked if people thought we should enter more GP cards or more comp cards to reflect a true handicap. I bet the results would be very split

 

[KenL]

It was highly rude of your opponent to comment on your handicap DURING the match. That would never have been done if you were losing.

 

[chrisd]

I'm in an improvement phase - and got told off by an opponent in a match a few weeks ago for my handicap not being low enough - even though we only won 1 up on the last. I'm really keen to get ot down (28 at the moment) I've been submitting 9 and 18 hole general play rounds every opportunity I get - and follow the rules to the letter (pre-register, score goes in good or bad, only do it when playing with a proper player who will attest my score) - as that is bringing it down more quickly than if I waited until I was free to play in competitition. Apparently I'm in the top 5% of number of cards submitted this year at the club. My oponent told me it was not right and that I shouldn't have those GP rounds but should have more competitions (6 of my 20 are competitions). Of course if I did that, first, I would need to take more time of work to play when comps are on and second I'm more likely to get a silly good score in a comp and upset everyone there (been there, done that, rubbish feeling that completely tainted the win and, to be honest, has put me off comps for a bit). Not quite sure what I ought to do.

My partner in the match pointed out that if I did what was suggested, and/or we'd played the match a few weeks ago, I'd have had an extra 4 shots! there was not much response to that, nor to my observation that our winning the match 1 up on the last is perhaps an indication that the handicap system was working pretty well.

Sour grapes by your opponent, if you only won ( or lost) by one hole then it would suggest to me that the handicaps were pretty much spot on. The idea of handicaps is that players of all abilities should be able to play each other fairly and competitively, and this is what you did!

 

[Biggleswade Blue]

It was highly rude of your opponent to comment on your handicap DURING the match. That would never have been done if you were losing.

We were 2 down with 3 to play. We'd won 16, and the comment was made on 17th tee after I hit a great drive. To be honest, I am not a particularly competitive person and up to then had enjoyed the match, but the comments made me really want to win.

In the next round, our oponents commented in a very good natured way at the start that they had their work cut out in view of my handicap, but were generous and good company all the way round irrespective of who was winning. We lost 2 down after 18.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I'm in an improvement phase - and got told off by an opponent in a match a few weeks ago for my handicap not being low enough - even though we only won 1 up on the last. I'm really keen to get ot down (28 at the moment) I've been submitting 9 and 18 hole general play rounds every opportunity I get - and follow the rules to the letter (pre-register, score goes in good or bad, only do it when playing with a proper player who will attest my score) - as that is bringing it down more quickly than if I waited until I was free to play in competitition. Apparently I'm in the top 5% of number of cards submitted this year at the club. My oponent told me it was not right and that I shouldn't have those GP rounds but should have more competitions (6 of my 20 are competitions). Of course if I did that, first, I would need to take more time of work to play when comps are on and second I'm more likely to get a silly good score in a comp and upset everyone there (been there, done that, rubbish feeling that completely tainted the win and, to be honest, has put me off comps for a bit). Not quite sure what I ought to do.

My partner in the match pointed out that if I did what was suggested, and/or we'd played the match a few weeks ago, I'd have had an extra 4 shots! there was not much response to that, nor to my observation that our winning the match 1 up on the last is perhaps an indication that the handicap system was working pretty well.

And that's why to a degree i'd always prefer not to consider any player a bandit. You've found the game, tried to improve, done everything right and other peoples attitude taint the matchplay win but also a competition win. People may say they say bandit in jest, potentially true with close friends, but i wish more would say 45pts, great playing.

I wonder what the standard deviation (think that's the term) would be of a 100 people playing with correct handicaps on a given day. Surely the odds with that many are that someone will always play one round significantly above their standard rounds on a given day. I mean you see the variations in pro golf when they're all exceptional.

Actual cheating, so deliberate card manipulation or breaking rules on the course is different but i think you need actual evidence not just someone scored 45pts.

 

[Swango1980]

We were 2 down with 3 to play. We'd won 16, and the comment was made on 17th tee after I hit a great drive. To be honest, I am not a particularly competitive person and up to then had enjoyed the match, but the comments made me really want to win.

In the next round, our oponents commented in a very good natured way at the start that they had their work cut out in view of my handicap, but were generous and good company all the way round irrespective of who was winning. We lost 2 down after 18.

Yeah, there is a difference about calling someone a bandit, but in a jokey good natured way, and accusing someone of having too high a handicap and somehow following bad practices to keep a higher handicap.

Few people can play every competition, and some clubs only have 2 to 4 competitions per month for the main club. So, if players didn't bother putting in general play rounds, any improving player would take an age to come down, and in the meantime be able to shoot great scores in match play and Opens. This is the entire point of permitting general play rounds, and making them easier to submit. So, you are doing the right thing.

If you were 2 down with 3 to play, I wonder if they were thinking your handicap was too high after 15 holes, or if you hadn't managed to catch them in last 3 holes, if he'd have had the same opinion?

 

[Bdill93]

I'm in an improvement phase - and got told off by an opponent in a match a few weeks ago for my handicap not being low enough - even though we only won 1 up on the last. I'm really keen to get ot down (28 at the moment) I've been submitting 9 and 18 hole general play rounds every opportunity I get - and follow the rules to the letter (pre-register, score goes in good or bad, only do it when playing with a proper player who will attest my score) - as that is bringing it down more quickly than if I waited until I was free to play in competitition. Apparently I'm in the top 5% of number of cards submitted this year at the club. My oponent told me it was not right and that I shouldn't have those GP rounds but should have more competitions (6 of my 20 are competitions). Of course if I did that, first, I would need to take more time of work to play when comps are on and second I'm more likely to get a silly good score in a comp and upset everyone there (been there, done that, rubbish feeling that completely tainted the win and, to be honest, has put me off comps for a bit). Not quite sure what I ought to do.

My partner in the match pointed out that if I did what was suggested, and/or we'd played the match a few weeks ago, I'd have had an extra 4 shots! there was not much response to that, nor to my observation that our winning the match 1 up on the last is perhaps an indication that the handicap system was working pretty well.

Id say youre doing the right thing!

My issues comes with people who do not submit cards at all really. If you're playing a few comps a month, then no need for GP scores in my mind (but crack on if you wish to), if you cant play many comps then GP scores are fine too - its all about keeping the handicap accurate.

Manipulating it down or worse, never submitting any form of card - which ive posted about somewhere in this thread - is what does annoy me!

 

[Orikoru]

Being put in a weird spot by someone who frequently asks to play with me.

He is messaging me to boast that his handicap is coming down quickly and that he’ll catch me up soon.

However, he has come down due to supplementary cards - ultimately not my concern, but one of those cards was on a day that he played with me in 3 ball.
I know that he wasn’t “handing in a card” and has only done it as he obviously added up the score afterwards and realised it was better than his worst qualifying score.
I can’t verify his score or if there were any gimmies given to him (a few of my putts were sent back to me) but regardless, I’m not too pleased about it because it’s not how it’s meant to be done.
The 3rd player on the day, did mention they might put a score in beforehand, but after a poor start said they weren’t going to… Which also made me rather uncomfortable.

So here we have someone who hasn’t played to his handicap in 2022 in 9 competitions (best score: 35 points off 10) and yet has been cut from 10 to 7 and is telling the whole world about his gains…

Starting to see more and more handicap records being littered with great supplementary scores. My genuine competition generated handicap doesn’t look so good, when so many have the same handicap but haven’t broken 80 in a comp for 3 years?

Are members meant to police this? Supp cards are allowed to be used, sure, but I honestly think they shouldn’t be allowed at all. Too much misuse by people who don’t see that they’re abusing the system. I’ve heard of a few times where people have made a mess of the back 9 and just put the front 9 score instead as a 9 hole record…

I’m not really seeing anyone use the system legitimately tbh.

One friend tells me I care too much?

It does seem silly. I can understand if someone does it once when they feel like an absolute bandit with a handicap that's too high. But if you're chasing some dreamy low handicap I just can't see the point. I've had a few 79s and that when not putting cards in lately, so I could have done as you described if I was that desperate. But the chance of me doing well in competition for the next 6 months would be out the window. The point of a handicap is to make you competitive in competitions I always thought. If you can't play to it or you're not even playing comps, or both, then the handicap number is pretty worthless.

 

[Mandofred]

I've always tried to stay away from Senior type team matchplay (and Opens of various kinds). One reason is because I've heard so many stories about people manipulating their handicaps to try and win.....and the other is because I have a fairly lowish handicap for being 65 (6.8) and feel like I can't really help the team much since I'm giving so many shots to others I play with. If I want to play comps I try and stick to just regular Medal style events. Just me against the golf course.....the golf course doesn't have feelings, so I'm not overly worried about hurting it's feelings.....it's always my feelings that get hurt

 

[sunshine]

I think we’ve remained at three counting scores in the rolling 12 month period. I think eight is a little excessive if I’m honest - for all sorts of reasons there are a number of people who won’t achieve that many, unless of course you include general play and 9-hole returns.

The 8 cards can include general play rounds, and can be at any course.

 

[Backsticks]

I think we’ve remained at three counting scores in the rolling 12 month period. I think eight is a little excessive if I’m honest - for all sorts of reasons there are a number of people who won’t achieve that many, unless of course you include general play and 9-hole returns.

If you cant put in 8 counting competition cards 8 in 12 months, then I do feel there isnt enough of a basis to expect to play in competitions. HC has to be representative. If not putting in 8 at least - then someone probably doesnt need a handicap in the first place.
One change in the WHS i would like to see, is the return of competition handicap. Protect those who compete regularly from those who dont, but still let those who dont, have a handicap for their non competition reasons : personal target, being able to say they have one, knowing they can upgrade it quickly to a comp handicap if they do want to get into competition golf, etc.

 

[Billysboots]

If you cant put in 8 counting competition cards 8 in 12 months, then I do feel there isnt enough of a basis to expect to play in competitions. HC has to be representative. If not putting in 8 at least - then someone probably doesnt need a handicap in the first place.
One change in the WHS i would like to see, is the return of competition handicap. Protect those who compete regularly from those who dont, but still let those who dont, have a handicap for their non competition reasons : personal target, being able to say they have one, knowing they can upgrade it quickly to a comp handicap if they do want to get into competition golf, etc.

That is precisely why many clubs, mine included, have introduced a local rule requiring three competition returns in the preceding 12 months to allow members to win competitions. If they don’t have those three returns they can still play competitions, they merely can’t win them. That’s no different to how it was prior to WHS.

Why, then, do you advocate eight? That’s not a “return” to how things used to be, but a considerable change. There are all sorts of reasons that members cannot return eight competition cards in a 12 month rolling period. Family pressures, shift work, and the fact that many clubs don’t run competitions every weekend, and don’t run them at all from the end of October until early April. If you insist on eight that will rule a lot of members out of competitions entirely and create exclusivity.

 

[Backache]

Why, then, do you advocate eight? That’s not a “return” to how things used to be, but a considerable change. There are all sorts of reasons that members cannot return eight competition cards in a 12 month rolling period. Family pressures, shift work, and the fact that many clubs don’t run competitions every weekend, and don’t run them at all from the end of October until early April. If you insist on eight that will rule a lot of members out of competitions entirely and create exclusivity.

I suspect eight would kill off handicap competitions in many clubs as the number of players able to regularly play eight non matchplay comps per year is small compared to most membership so the number able to enter each comp falls . So demand for competitions fall so people are able to enter fewer.

 

[Springveldt]

Being put in a weird spot by someone who frequently asks to play with me.

He is messaging me to boast that his handicap is coming down quickly and that he’ll catch me up soon.

However, he has come down due to supplementary cards - ultimately not my concern, but one of those cards was on a day that he played with me in 3 ball.
I know that he wasn’t “handing in a card” and has only done it as he obviously added up the score afterwards and realised it was better than his worst qualifying score.
I can’t verify his score or if there were any gimmies given to him (a few of my putts were sent back to me) but regardless, I’m not too pleased about it because it’s not how it’s meant to be done.
The 3rd player on the day, did mention they might put a score in beforehand, but after a poor start said they weren’t going to… Which also made me rather uncomfortable.

So here we have someone who hasn’t played to his handicap in 2022 in 9 competitions (best score: 35 points off 10) and yet has been cut from 10 to 7 and is telling the whole world about his gains…

Starting to see more and more handicap records being littered with great supplementary scores. My genuine competition generated handicap doesn’t look so good, when so many have the same handicap but haven’t broken 80 in a comp for 3 years?

Are members meant to police this? Supp cards are allowed to be used, sure, but I honestly think they shouldn’t be allowed at all. Too much misuse by people who don’t see that they’re abusing the system. I’ve heard of a few times where people have made a mess of the back 9 and just put the front 9 score instead as a 9 hole record…

I’m not really seeing anyone use the system legitimately tbh.

One friend tells me I care too much?

While it's abusing the system in the end they are only hurting themselves so I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's the guys that inflate their handicaps to win comps that are cheating the whole field that I don't like.

Someone having a vanity handicap just so they can say "I'm off x.x" to people who probably don't really care anyway, I'm not bothered by them tbh.

I guess it could be an issue if you are a really low player in the scratch area and people are manipulating their handicaps to get into better County or Open events and cheating proper handicapped players out of a spot but I'd imagine they will soon be found out.

 

[3offTheTee]

Being put in a weird spot by someone who frequently asks to play with me.

He is messaging me to boast that his handicap is coming down quickly and that he’ll catch me up soon.

However, he has come down due to supplementary cards - ultimately not my concern, but one of those cards was on a day that he played with me in 3 ball.
I know that he wasn’t “handing in a card” and has only done it as he obviously added up the score afterwards and realised it was better than his worst qualifying score.
I can’t verify his score or if there were any gimmies given to him (a few of my putts were sent back to me) but regardless, I’m not too pleased about it because it’s not how it’s meant to be done.
The 3rd player on the day, did mention they might put a score in beforehand, but after a poor start said they weren’t going to… Which also made me rather uncomfortable.

So here we have someone who hasn’t played to his handicap in 2022 in 9 competitions (best score: 35 points off 10) and yet has been cut from 10 to 7 and is telling the whole world about his gains…

Starting to see more and more handicap records being littered with great supplementary scores. My genuine competition generated handicap doesn’t look so good, when so many have the same handicap but haven’t broken 80 in a comp for 3 years?

Are members meant to police this? Supp cards are allowed to be used, sure, but I honestly think they shouldn’t be allowed at all. Too much misuse by people who don’t see that they’re abusing the system. I’ve heard of a few times where people have made a mess of the back 9 and just put the front 9 score instead as a 9 hole record…

I’m not really seeing anyone use the system legitimately tbh.

One friend tells me I care too much?

That is so disappointing and annoying. I play 20/25 competition a per annum and this week was the first time ever that I had entered a Supplementary Card.
I was impressed by The System in there had to be an attester. Added to that I had to send a message to the attested as he needed to confirm my score.

My question would be to ask him who had attested his score and Depending upon his reply consider mentioning to The Handicap Secretary at your Club.

He is doing himself no favours having a false handicap and questions need to be asked as who attested his score.

 

[Crazyface]

Heck.....I don't give my friends anything over a foot. I'm a bit hard nosed though.......hate gimmies.

I don't do gummies full stop. Why not? To quote my wife here .." isn't the object of the game to put the ball in the hole".
And that everyone is why no one should ever give gimmies. It's how the game is played

 

[Crazyface]

I think we’ve remained at three counting scores in the rolling 12 month period. I think eight is a little excessive if I’m honest - for all sorts of reasons there are a number of people who won’t achieve that many, unless of course you include general play and 9-hole returns.

It says 8 scores not 8 scores in competition. Easy to do this.

 

[Springveldt]

I suspect eight would kill off handicap competitions in many clubs as the number of players able to regularly play eight non matchplay comps per year is small compared to most membership so the number able to enter each comp falls . So demand for competitions fall so people are able to enter fewer.

Is that through personal choice or lack of competitions held by the club? At mine we have a board comp most Saturdays from May till the end of September (and a sweep in April and October), we have a Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday sweep. First Wednesday of the month is the monthly medal the other 3 or 4 as Stableford. The seniors have a comp on Thursday and then there is the Friday Night Nine's comp that runs for 20 weeks as well. More than enough comps to enter.

99% of my scores are in competitions as I play on a Saturday and Wednesday and always enter the comp. I very rarely get time to play a general round.

 

[Crazyface]

Ultimately theyre cheating themselves out of shots and will become irrelevant in competitive play.. Vanity caps will never go away.

However, If I was off 3.8 and saw people cheating the system to bring down their handicap to single digits it would probably annoy me too... You worked hard to get there scoring in comps - theyre just cherry picking great social rounds...

Why would you do this anyway? I don't get it?