Agreed on all points.
Have you ever played with a known handicap cheat?
- Thread starter Beezerk
- Start date
Agreed on all points.
slicer79
Challenge Tour Pro
One thing I've always said about anyone who manipulates their handicap it must be no fun. Before you step on the first tee you know that you're going to put in a poor score or whatever for an increase.
Part of a game for me is the unknown and on the day things are going well trying to keep the score going
Part of a game for me is the unknown and on the day things are going well trying to keep the score going
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Reading this thread, and others of a similar vein, I feel the authorities have failed in their attempts to edcucate everyone about WHS.
It seems there are plenty of people who have little to no idea how the systems work and that's poor.
We rarely get winning scores in the 40s let alone 46/48...OK, a senior comp was won with 44 this week but that's definitely an outlier
If people are only putting in comp cards then, as long as they're playing enough then their handicap will be reasonably accurate.
If they're only putting in 4 or 5 cards a year then it's not going to be.
Why are so many seemingly afraid of General Play cards..?
If you've been educated and follow the rules it's the same as a competition without a prize - which most people don't get anyway.
Ellesborough gets between 400 and 500 general play cards a week........I probably account for 4 or 5 of those..and that's on top of the comp cards.
We play to the rules, we try to play our best and we try to score as well as we can.
We don't put a card in every single time we play but, for the most part, we do. We still have a laugh, we still chat, we still take the proverbial......
As a result our handicaps are about as accurate as you can get...and that's why we don't often get winning scores in the mid to high 40s.
If I was still at Whipsnade I'd be putting in 5 cards a year without general play cards because that's how many comps midweek member had access to...and the old Supplementary card system could take a month to register
I've put in 63 cards this year, probably 7 or 8 comps, the rest or GP.
I'm confident my index reflects my current form....
It seems there are plenty of people who have little to no idea how the systems work and that's poor.
We rarely get winning scores in the 40s let alone 46/48...OK, a senior comp was won with 44 this week but that's definitely an outlier
If people are only putting in comp cards then, as long as they're playing enough then their handicap will be reasonably accurate.
If they're only putting in 4 or 5 cards a year then it's not going to be.
Why are so many seemingly afraid of General Play cards..?
If you've been educated and follow the rules it's the same as a competition without a prize - which most people don't get anyway.
Ellesborough gets between 400 and 500 general play cards a week........I probably account for 4 or 5 of those..and that's on top of the comp cards.
We play to the rules, we try to play our best and we try to score as well as we can.
We don't put a card in every single time we play but, for the most part, we do. We still have a laugh, we still chat, we still take the proverbial......
As a result our handicaps are about as accurate as you can get...and that's why we don't often get winning scores in the mid to high 40s.
If I was still at Whipsnade I'd be putting in 5 cards a year without general play cards because that's how many comps midweek member had access to...and the old Supplementary card system could take a month to register
I've put in 63 cards this year, probably 7 or 8 comps, the rest or GP.
I'm confident my index reflects my current form....
AliMc
Well-known member
100% correct Ken imho, I would never consider playing in an open that was based on stableford
^^^^ This is exactly how a handicapping system should work, and is the only true way to maintain the integrity of competition golf, as all of the entrants will be playing off a handicap which reflects their current ability. I, too, put regular additional cards in.
Too many don’t. We have a guy in our roll up who is currently unable to win competitions as he has only returned one card in the last year. That’s a nonsense, as I know he plays most weekends and at least twice in the week. For him, it’s a vanity thing as his form has been on the slide for 18 months, but when he eventually does play a comp he now has absolutely no hope of winning it, or even being remotely competitive.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Did you mean a month?? Otherwise this doesn't add up with what you said at the end. I was going to argue a handicap isn't that accurate if it only reflects your last 3-4 weeks play. ?
HeftyHacker
Well-known member
But it does if you consider the fact that the new system is more a reflection of form than outright ability.
D
Deleted member 3432
Guest
Or current weather conditions...?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I think there's a line where you can put too many cards in though. As I say, if it's only reflecting your last 3 weeks form it could fluctuate wildly. For the last few months I've had 3 or 4 cards in per month which I think is about right. I don't agree that your handicap should only reflect your recent form, as that only leaves more scope for banditry. Based on the amount of cards I'm putting in now, my handicap will be based over about 6 months play which I think is fair.
I think it’s in South Africa that you have to submit every card for handicap purposes. There will doubtless be allowances in there for playing incomplete rounds etc, but the gist is all cards must be handed in. I suspect other countries will be similar.
It’s always amazed me the number of golfers in this country, regular players with societies who are members at clubs, who don’t have handicaps.
It’s always amazed me the number of golfers in this country, regular players with societies who are members at clubs, who don’t have handicaps.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Isn't that what the US handicap system is pretty well known for, that all scores should be submitted? When golfers don't finish a hole, they just put in their "most likely score"
D
Deleted member 3432
Guest
Put me down for a 72 gross please.
Most likely score, sorry thats a bit of a joke, who knows what happens before holing out in the 'real world'
Orikoru
Tour Winner
lol, what? "Can't be arsed finding that one, but if I took a drop I most likely would have jarred it for a par so stick me down for that."
Swango1980
Well-known member
Most Likely Score is already part of WHS, it is just that the UK have chosen not to adopt it, yet. I believe Ireland are trying it.
Personally, I don't like it, but others will defend it until the cows come home
Bobthesock
Active member
If I have a bad first few holes I already give up in my head and just treat it as a practice round. Flop shots from tight lies, hitting big slices for no obvious reason etc. Is this cheating or just what most people do? Can't imagine that many give it 100% when already out of the comp after 3 holes?
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I play with others about 4 or 5 times a week and, mostly, a card goes in...
Your Index should reflect your current form..what's more current than the last 3 or 4 weeks?
If I hit a run of form then the index drops quickly to reflect it..it doesn't stay high for 3 or 4 weeks because I haven't put any other cards in.
And vice versa....
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Sorry, I misread your '63 cards this year' as 63 in one whole year, hence why my maths didn't add up. ?
As I said above, I don't really see why it should reflect your current form. If you've been playing poorly for 3 or 4 weeks and wiped out your whole record it's not exactly a great leap to then play as well as you did one month ago and subsequently earn yourself about 42 points. I just don't think a 3 week window is a broad enough reflection of how good you are at golf. If I was playing against someone who was off 15 all based on the last 3 weeks but I can see he was shooting 7 or 8 over just 4 weeks ago I'd be seriously worried! Whereas if that handicap was based on 3 months worth of golf I'd be more secure that it reflects his current level.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Depends on your definition of the word Current.....
Swango1980
Well-known member
I've always felt that could be an unwanted consequence of WHS. Are you cheating? Well, I wouldn't call you a cheat because in my mind, there always has to be some malicious intent to be classed as a cheat. However, as you are not technically playing to the best of your ability, then you could be accused of not fulfilling your handicapping responsibilities (maybe you could argue you are trying to play the best possible flop shot, despite it being the wrong type of shot).
Always felt WHS could favour, to some extent, the mentally weaker golfers. The ones who give up early in the round (doesn't even need to be that early to be honest, even a blow up with 3 or 4 holes to go can make a difference). If they do it frequently, there is ever chance some of those rounds could make their top 8, whilst many outside the top 8 never had a chance due to players mindset. This would result in a higher index, to some degree, than would have been possible if the player tried harder.
Compare to a player who digs deep no matter how rubbish they started. All 8 scores will have been submitted with the player trying their hardest, and some of those 8 might have featured dodgy starts, but the player turned it round and had an amazing end to the round. It is more likely they will reach a relatively lower index (against their actual ability) than the first player.
slicer79
Challenge Tour Pro
I watch various bits of golf on YouTube. I've also noted how loose the American guys are with rules.
I've watched scrambles where the position of ball being taken is never marked even on green. The others just play from roughly the same place.
Also when putting if one of first guys is close to hole after hitting their putt they generally walk up and tap it in before others hit their putt. To me once you tap in that's the hole finished
Very dodgy also with lost balls , just dropping one where ball got lost as opposed to hitting provisional from original position
I can see why a lot of American golfers seem to have a handicap that appears lower than their ability
Watched one competitive scramble on the Good Good channel, each team was allowed take 4 mulligans in their round! Thought that was a bit mad
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