Have you ever played with a known handicap cheat?

[Billysboots]

Being put in a weird spot by someone who frequently asks to play with me.

He is messaging me to boast that his handicap is coming down quickly and that he’ll catch me up soon.

However, he has come down due to supplementary cards - ultimately not my concern, but one of those cards was on a day that he played with me in 3 ball.
I know that he wasn’t “handing in a card” and has only done it as he obviously added up the score afterwards and realised it was better than his worst qualifying score.
I can’t verify his score or if there were any gimmies given to him (a few of my putts were sent back to me) but regardless, I’m not too pleased about it because it’s not how it’s meant to be done.
The 3rd player on the day, did mention they might put a score in beforehand, but after a poor start said they weren’t going to… Which also made me rather uncomfortable.

So here we have someone who hasn’t played to his handicap in 2022 in 9 competitions (best score: 35 points off 10) and yet has been cut from 10 to 7 and is telling the whole world about his gains…

Starting to see more and more handicap records being littered with great supplementary scores. My genuine competition generated handicap doesn’t look so good, when so many have the same handicap but haven’t broken 80 in a comp for 3 years?

Are members meant to police this? Supp cards are allowed to be used, sure, but I honestly think they shouldn’t be allowed at all. Too much misuse by people who don’t see that they’re abusing the system. I’ve heard of a few times where people have made a mess of the back 9 and just put the front 9 score instead as a 9 hole record…

I’m not really seeing anyone use the system legitimately tbh.

One friend tells me I care too much?

That is exactly the situation with the guy at ours which I referred to earlier in this thread. And he is getting a mate to attest his supplementary scores even when they don’t play together.

It’s becoming clear now what it’s all about. He is desperate to play representative golf, and also to run teams at our club, as he did at his last place. People are rapidly sussing him out, and one or two are now starting to do some digging at the club he left six months ago to find out why he moved.

His handicap is three strokes better than mine and I can say, without hesitation, there is no way he is a 6 handicap. No way on this earth.

 

[Billysboots]

Is that through personal choice or lack of competitions held by the club? At mine we have a board comp most Saturdays from May till the end of September (and a sweep in April and October), we have a Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday sweep. First Wednesday of the month is the monthly medal the other 3 or 4 as Stableford. The seniors have a comp on Thursday and then there is the Friday Night Nine's comp that runs for 20 weeks as well. More than enough comps to enter.

99% of my scores are in competitions as I play on a Saturday and Wednesday and always enter the comp. I very rarely get time to play a general round.

We run a number of pairs and team events in addition to singles. In the event there was ever a directive from EG that eight qualifying competitions needed to be played in a rolling 12 month period (it’ll never happen, by the way), then those pairs and team events would have to go.

As I said above, with family pressures, weekend working and so on, it is easy to see why so many would struggle to maintain that level of competitive golf.

 

[Billysboots]

It says 8 scores not 8 scores in competition. Easy to do this.

I was replying directly to a comment advocating 8 scores from qualifying competitions. Not so easy.

 

[Swango1980]

If you cant put in 8 counting competition cards 8 in 12 months, then I do feel there isnt enough of a basis to expect to play in competitions. HC has to be representative. If not putting in 8 at least - then someone probably doesnt need a handicap in the first place.
One change in the WHS i would like to see, is the return of competition handicap. Protect those who compete regularly from those who dont, but still let those who dont, have a handicap for their non competition reasons : personal target, being able to say they have one, knowing they can upgrade it quickly to a comp handicap if they do want to get into competition golf, etc.

As others say, 8 would be harsh. Pretty extreme in fact. At our club, the only competitions (unless you are a Senior or Lady) are held at weekends. So, if you have a golfer who works at weekends, then you all but rule them out of playing in competitions ever. When they do get a weekend free, they may well want to spend it with family. So, very rarely, they may finally get the chance to play in a competition, and you'd be telling them they do not qualify the entry requirements. Several of the guys in my group maybe only play 4 or 5 competitions a year (some less), although they do submit a lot more cards as they can play sociably outside the competition periods.

The other issue is, what defines a competition? Many clubs now have informal role ups, not really run by the club. Players can turn up, groups sorted on the morning, and then the scores are put on the system. At my club, there is a fiddle that goes out every Thursday, and scores put on the system. Would a club define this as a competition, or are we talking official club competitions where prises are won and presented at Presentation Evening?

 

[Mandofred]

Since joining the new club, I've only played in one Medal (April). I've turned in 19 casual cards. Lots of other times I haven't bothered putting in a card. If the rules changed so it had to be 5 (or 8...whatever) comp scores, I'd play more comps. Almost everybody who plays regularly can fit in 8 comps.

 

[Springveldt]

We run a number of pairs and team events in addition to singles. In the event there was ever a directive from EG that eight qualifying competitions needed to be played in a rolling 12 month period (it’ll never happen, by the way), then those pairs and team events would have to go.

As I said above, with family pressures, weekend working and so on, it is easy to see why so many would struggle to maintain that level of competitive golf.

I think we have 2 pairs comps and 2 invitation days on Saturdays so that removed 4 Saturdays from May-Sept that aren't single comps. All other Saturdays are comps.

As I said we also have sweeps on Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday and a 9 hole comp on Friday. At my place there is really no excuse for not playing in 8 comps per year. Maybe your course needs to put on more competitions?

The Sunday and Wednesday sweep are usually well supported. We had 56 people play on Sunday and 87 in the Wednesday one this week. The Tuesday one was a new one for this year and I don't think it's that well supported.

I call these comps but they aren't "official" club competitions, no name on the board or anything. I think they are called "Pro Sweeps" but you go into the Pro shop, pay your £4, get a card with your name printed on etc.

 

[RichA]

Why would you do this anyway? I don't get it?

Some people at our place seem to get more pleasure from scoring 30 points in a comp and complaining that a high handicapper won again than they do from actually winning.
The same people tend to be the ones who EG low midweek scores that cut their HI while playing with people you've never heard of.

 

[Backache]

Is that through personal choice or lack of competitions held by the club? At mine we have a board comp most Saturdays from May till the end of September (and a sweep in April and October), we have a Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday sweep. First Wednesday of the month is the monthly medal the other 3 or 4 as Stableford. The seniors have a comp on Thursday and then there is the Friday Night Nine's comp that runs for 20 weeks as well. More than enough comps to enter.

99% of my scores are in competitions as I play on a Saturday and Wednesday and always enter the comp. I very rarely get time to play a general round.

There are clearly some people including yourself who can play in a lot of comps and good on you I'm not criticising you.
But for many in full time employment weekends are the only practical times for comps and family and other commitments eat into those weekends.
My kids are now grown up and I work part time but a couple of years ago there would have been no way I could manage 8 stroke play comps a year. Now it is probably around what I will play and I feel I play quite a bit of golf.

 

[Depreston]

45 points won the midweek stableford

top 10 consisted of 8+ 20-30 handicappers a 18 and a 7


95 points took the win at Dinsdale in the Team Open we played in on sat 2 of the best 4 scores counting

 

[Springveldt]

There are clearly some people including yourself who can play in a lot of comps and good on you I'm not criticising you.
But for many in full time employment weekends are the only practical times for comps and family and other commitments eat into those weekends.
My kids are now grown up and I work part time but a couple of years ago there would have been no way I could manage 8 stroke play comps a year. Now it is probably around what I will play and I feel I play quite a bit of golf.

I get it as I've got a full time job (software engineer) which can sometime require lots of hours, 2 kids, one of which is very demanding due to him being autistic and having a learning disability. I know I'm lucky to get in 2 rounds per week and many don't get that time. I went a few years where I could only get out on a Saturday morning and had to be home by 1PM.

What I was saying though is that maybe my club is the exception but we have so many club run competitions be it the Saturday board competition or the Pro sweep that is run three time a week that at my course there is ample opportunity to play in a competition even if you work weekends. If I was unable to get 8 competition rounds in in a year I'd maybe be asking myself if my membership was worth it.

 

[Beezerk]

45 points won the midweek stableford

top 10 consisted of 8+ 20-30 handicappers a 18 and a 7


95 points took the win at Dinsdale in the Team Open we played in on sat 2 of the best 4 scores counting

We had a comp last Saturday, guy with 48 points went home thinking it was in the bag, lad came in with 49 points ?
Both mid teen handicappers playing almost bogey free golf ?
I shot 39 points in a comp the day after and wasn’t even in the top 10 ?

 

[Patster1969]

We had a comp last Saturday, guy with 48 points went home thinking it was in the bag, lad came in with 49 points ?
Both mid teen handicappers playing almost bogey free golf ?
I shot 39 points in a comp the day after and wasn’t even in the top 10 ?

Similar, 38 points - I was 15th

 

[D-S]

I don’t understand why insisting that someone must put at least 8 General Play scores in the previous 12 months would in any way stop someone manipulating their handicap upwards. All it does is give them more opportunity to do so.

 

[RichA]

I don’t understand why insisting that someone must put at least 8 General Play scores in the previous 12 months would in any way stop someone manipulating their handicap upwards. All it does is give them more opportunity to do so.

I've stopped EGing social rounds because they make my HI go up and it looks suspicious. Subconsciously, I just play better when it feels like it matters.

 

[IanM]

Played with one this week. Handicap in the 20s. Absolutely no way.

Shoots the lights out in Pairs Comps, plays rubbish in medals.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

45 points won the midweek stableford

top 10 consisted of 8+ 20-30 handicappers a 18 and a 7


95 points took the win at Dinsdale in the Team Open we played in on sat 2 of the best 4 scores counting

I played in one of their opens a few years ago. A pretty daft score won that day as well. From memory the prize money is quite sizeable.................?

 

[HeftyHacker]

Played with one this week. Handicap in the 20s. Absolutely no way.

Shoots the lights out in Pairs Comps, plays rubbish in medals.

To be fair I have a mate like this, plays off the same handicap as me (11ish). But is a far better player.

Unfortunately he's mentally useless and one bad hole in a medal or a couple in stableford and his head goes and he starts taking stupid risks and rushing putts etc.

In a pairs or team comp though, where those bad holes don't matter, he is deadly.

Its an odd one as he never really threatens in singles so wouldn't say he's a bandit or manipulates his handicap for the purpose of winning.

 

[RRidges]

To be fair I have a mate like this, plays off the same handicap as me (11ish). But is a far better player.

Unfortunately he's mentally useless and one bad hole in a medal or a couple in stableford and his head goes and he starts taking stupid risks and rushing putts etc.

In a pairs or team comp though, where those bad holes don't matter, he is deadly.

Its an odd one as he never really threatens in singles so wouldn't say he's a bandit or manipulates his handicap for the purpose of winning.

He needs a caddy!
Take an occasional comp off and caddy for him and sort him out.
As Golf often reflects life, it might help his fragile attitude in far more important areas too.
Oh and get him to read Bob Rotella's books, especially 'Golf is not a game of perfect'.

 

[IanM]

Soon to play against 2 in pairs matchplay..

Both guys HI's are above 20 - no cards in the system for over 12 months and yet both shot in the 70's in their last match against two people I know well and trust.... We're going to get battered

We had a pair of them at my first Club. They were Seniors. Won every match play going but only every put in the minimum of qualifying cards. They got a savage Rule 19 cut and left club immediately. They joined one 40 miles away and started as new handicappers. Our sec wrote to the other club who reinstated their former handicap. Not sure what happened after that.

The prizes make it too tempting for some. Maybe the amateur limits on handicap events need looking at

 

[3offTheTee]

That is exactly the situation with the guy at ours which I referred to earlier in this thread. And he is getting a mate to attest his supplementary scores even when they don’t play together.

It’s becoming clear now what it’s all about. He is desperate to play representative golf, and also to run teams at our club, as he did at his last place. People are rapidly sussing him out, and one or two are now starting to do some digging at the club he left six months ago to find out why he moved.

His handicap is three strokes better than mine and I can say, without hesitation, there is no way he is a 6 handicap. No way on this earth.

Well they are both cheating.

Regardingnplaying for the Club. If his handicap should be 9 and say 5 is needed to play representative golf he will/ should lose matches against other Clubs.

He seems to be going to embarrass himself sooner rather than later