Handicaps....what changes would you make?

[Old Skier]

I believe it's the only thing we omit

I might be behind the curve but didn't any handicap adjustments take place at the end of month and not immediately. Might be mixing up this with something else.

 

[Val]

I might be behind the curve but didn't any handicap adjustments take place at the end of month and not immediately. Might be mixing up this with something else.

Don't know, no ESR in Scotland regardless though

 

[AmandaJR]

Maybe 'absolutely can not win' would be a little too strong a phrase, but why would a low hc enter a comp they have very little chance of winning?

We have 4 players at 2 or less, and to win 4 out of our last 7 comps they would have had to beat the course record by either 2 or 3 strokes.

They still enter comps, because they want to lower their handicaps to have even less chance of winning the next one.

This. It works both ways yet the arguments are always made from the high handicappers point of view. I have never entered a competition to win it - just try to play my best and hopefully get a cut (which as you say makes winning even less likely). Why not enter a comp for the challenge of the comp itself. Why not to put yourself against your peers and see how you fare. Why not to beat your last best score. Why not to see if you can beat the guy who you always just lose to...

All this talk of winning or if you can't don't bother competing....as I said in most other sports it is the norm yet they still have plenty of participation.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

None - never quite understand what the issues are. Sometimes it works for me; sometimes it doesn't; sometimes it works against me. But that's golf and is just a reflection of the bounces we get every shot we hit.

 

[Old Skier]

This. It works both ways yet the arguments are always made from the high handicappers point of view. I have never entered a competition to win it - just try to play my best and hopefully get a cut (which as you say makes winning even less likely). Why not enter a comp for the challenge of the comp itself. Why not to put yourself against your peers and see how you fare. Why not to beat your last best score. Why not to see if you can beat the guy who you always just lose to...

All this talk of winning or if you can't don't bother competing....as I said in most other sports it is the norm yet they still have plenty of participation.

I still think this will have a negative impact on comps. Why would you play in any matchplay event if you know you wouldn't even be able to compete against your opponent. The numbers playing in our scratch comps have reduced over the years. I think the issue with handicaps and comps is more to do with organisers having realistic divisions in all comps giving all especially the lower handicapper an incentive to enter.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

People are perhaps taking my comments too literally and mixing things up.

Competitions. I have never won a golf comp. Never. I still enter, pay my money because I know there is a chance I may do if everything comes together. I play for enjoyment, to get a cut but if I am putting money into a pot then I am only going to do that if I have some chance of winning. I know it is unlikely but it is not impossible and that chance is there every time I tee up. If not I'd rather give it to charity than giving it straight to another golfer. If you scrapped h/c in many comps, never going to happen, then many golfers would just play socially and hand in supplementary cards for h/c purposes.

Longest drive. My drives are between 180-200yds. Bare fairways, downhill, downwind etc it goes further but then so does everyone else's so let's discount that. That distance is never going to come close to winning a longest drive so why enter? The whole point of a competition is that you have some chance, no matter how slight, to win. That is why nearest the pin works on a par 3, nearest the flag in 2 on a par 4. Longest drive is great for big hitters, macho golfers. Fine but don't expect short hitters to donate money to long hitters.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Didn't GM write about this not too long ago, but looked at it from the other side that a 5 hadnicap from the USA is no competition for a 5 handicap from the UK. Because the UK golfer has his 5 handicap from competitive golf with the added pressure whereas the US golfer has his handicap from social rounds with no pressure.Seeing as we only really care about handicaps in competitions, where we play against each other for prizes it would make more sense to have a handicap that is based on your golfing ability in competitions.Also I often play by myself, so I can go around quickly. Would they accept my social cards if I was the only witness

So - a 4 handicapper form the US will likely struggle in a match against a UK 4 handicapper?

I guess this explains how the PotUS can be a 4 handicapper. He plays masses of social golf under little pressure and all cards count. Mind you being a 4 handicapper is just perfect for his ego. That said - if we adopt the US system and that makes it easier for me to get to Cat 1...maybe I'll see if I can find a golfing ego...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why would a high h/c pay to enter a competition that they absolutely can not win? I don't pay into longest drive comps on society days because I know I won't win. I, and many others, would just play social golf if there were no h/c. H/c keep competition numbers up.

I always enter our scratch K/O comp. I don't ever really think I've got much chance of winning it - but I know I'm good at matchplay. This year I got to the semi - I lost but that was more my own stupidity - rather than poor golf shots and golf mistakes. I could have got to the final and then who knows...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Plenty of people enter comps they have little or no chance of winning. The prospect of winning doesn't even come into my thinking when deciding to enter something or not.

snap!

I enter because I can and it's just what I do as a club member. i also like and embrace the particular challenge of competitive golf and so get as much of it as possible. That additional mind-pressure - seeing if I can get myself playing well - and maintaining it through the round to the end. And if I start poorly - the imperative and pressure to get my round back on an even keel becomes the challenge - even if the prospect of winning has most likely gone. If I get back on an even keel quickly enough you just never know.

 

[Old Skier]

snap!

i also like and embrace the particular challenge of competitive golf and so get as much of it as possible. .

So do I, but if there is no chance of you being able to compete where is the challenge of competitive golf coming from. If your not able to compete, then surely your just there to make up the numbers.

 

[jim8flog]

Not in Scotland though

Sorry I missed the exception in the manual

So if there is a world unified handicap system it is much more likely that ESR will have to be implemented in Scotland.

 

[Orikoru]

So - a 4 handicapper form the US will likely struggle in a match against a UK 4 handicapper?

I guess this explains how the PotUS can be a 4 handicapper. He plays masses of social golf under little pressure and all cards count. Mind you being a 4 handicapper is just perfect for his ego. That said - if we adopt the US system and that makes it easier for me to get to Cat 1...maybe I'll see if I can find a golfing ego...

I thought it was common knowledge that he's a low handicap because he's a serial cheat??

(I hope his social media police don't hunt me down for that one, mind...)

 

[jim8flog]

Guy I know once won a LD with a 6 iron.
Strong side wind, he was last to go and nobody had managed to stay on the fairway.
Knocked a 6 iron down onto the short stuff by about 5 yards and won a stand bag.....

That reminds me of what happened to a mate. His drive at 250 yards finished within a inch of a nearest the line comp he was beaten by a guy whose ball was touching the line at 150 yards.

 

[jim8flog]

Why would a high h/c pay to enter a competition that they absolutely can not win? I don't pay into longest drive comps on society days because I know I won't win. I, and many others, would just play social golf if there were no h/c. H/c keep competition numbers up.

At little bit of the reverse with the current system.

I know the lowest handicap player at our course plays loads of comps. He knows he has virtually no chance of winning the net prize but reckons on winning a reasonable amount from the 2's pot.

 

[jim8flog]

I might be behind the curve but didn't any handicap adjustments take place at the end of month and not immediately. Might be mixing up this with something else.

I have not read if anybody else has replied to this.

Handicap adjustments take effect as soon as a result is published.

If you play better than the SSS and play in another comp or match before the result is published you have to self adjust your handicap in line with the SSS, you are not allowed to self adjust upwards.

 

[Old Skier]

I have not read if anybody else has replied to this.

Handicap adjustments take effect as soon as a result is published.

If you play better than the SSS and play in another comp or match before the result is published you have to self adjust your handicap in line with the SSS, you are not allowed to self adjust upwards.

My comment refered to Scotland.

 

[Val]

My comment refered to Scotland.

Handicap changes are immediate in scotland too

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So do I, but if there is no chance of you being able to compete where is the challenge of competitive golf coming from. If your not able to compete, then surely your just there to make up the numbers.

I may well be - but I don't look at it that way - and for all club comps I feel some responsibility to other members to ensure a good field. Besides - I always enter the 2s so always on for £20 or so. And always looking for h/cap reductions.

 

[FairwayDodger]

This. It works both ways yet the arguments are always made from the high handicappers point of view. I have never entered a competition to win it - just try to play my best and hopefully get a cut (which as you say makes winning even less likely). Why not enter a comp for the challenge of the comp itself. Why not to put yourself against your peers and see how you fare. Why not to beat your last best score. Why not to see if you can beat the guy who you always just lose to...

All this talk of winning or if you can't don't bother competing....as I said in most other sports it is the norm yet they still have plenty of participation.

Spot on! :thup:

 

[FairwayDodger]

Longest drive. My drives are between 180-200yds. Bare fairways, downhill, downwind etc it goes further but then so does everyone else's so let's discount that. That distance is never going to come close to winning a longest drive so why enter? The whole point of a competition is that you have some chance, no matter how slight, to win. That is why nearest the pin works on a par 3, nearest the flag in 2 on a par 4. Longest drive is great for big hitters, macho golfers. Fine but don't expect short hitters to donate money to long hitters.

I sort of see this. I resent it when playing in a mixed event if there is only one longest drive hole rather than separate male/female holes as it greatly reduces my chance of winning. Although if they picked a hole with the red tees 50 yards up the fairway there might be a few disgruntled men...

However, it's not all about length for these. I played an open recently with a pal who isn't a big hitter, although not short, and she probably doesn't see herself winning any longest drive comps. She won the longest drive in this comp with a fairly short hit. My drive was 80 yards past her but a foot off the fairway. I guess all the bigger hitters in the field had similar issues.