Gender Neutral Tees

[Backache]

Our tees are all rated for men and women.
The forward tees occasionally get used by men and the middle and back tees very occasionally by women from observation, virtually all competitions are single sex played off an identified tee.
Being a fairly short course there is little difference between our front and middle tees other than a couple of holes. On a couple the middle tees actually give a trickier line. Front tees are significantly shorter

 

[Backache]

What about forward tees for lady golfers who have lost distance ?
At least most courses already have three tees for men. But I dont think I have ever seen anything other than one size fits all for ladies.

Surely that is where clubs should be going first, rather then a 4th or 5th option for men ? Or is it that golf course design is really golf course for men design, ladies an afterthought ?

Think that would be a good idea.

 

[Oddsocks]

is it mainly seniors and women who use the forward tees?

To my knowledge the women kicked right off when the seniors wanted to use the reds during the winter which I find ironic as the older lady members were at home in the warm and the younger women joined the male swindle and played off the yellows.

Cake and eat it springs to mind.

 

[Backsticks]

Again it’ll be reluctance to have large numbers on small tees. In their wisdom we use some of the “ladies” tees for the whole club over the winter and these just get destroyed. 15th tee is lucky to get any grass back on it before mid July.

Make the forward tees the same size as the “men’s” ones and maintain them to the same standard before criticising the women’s reluctance to share.

Dont just make red tees bigger, better, give them their own short tees. Whats sauce for the goose. So they get the shorter tee option as well, and having one, reduces wear on the existing red tees.

 

[Oddsocks]

Again it’ll be reluctance to have large numbers on small tees. In their wisdom we use some of the “ladies” tees for the whole club over the winter and these just get destroyed. 15th tee is lucky to get any grass back on it before mid July.

Make the forward tees the same size as the “men’s” ones and maintain them to the same standard before criticising the women’s reluctance to share.

Our women’s section doesn’t warrant the investment kaz, it was as low as 16 at one point. The reds were the same as the which which need to be made bigger long before the reds due to the sheer volume of members and societies

 

[LizAig]

I raised the question with our club as to why all our tees aren't gender neutral and we cant play off any at any time. (Whites and blacks only for comps etc). The captain emailed back and said that he agreed with me and raised it in a committee meeting but was out voted 6-2. He agreed that in these days of equality for all it would be the most sensible approach but said the lady captain was incensed at the thought that men be allowed to play off the forward tees.

Just another example of our club being stuck in the past in many ways unfortunately. The committee really haven't painted themselves in a good light this year and the fact that they've just allowed our best greenkeeper to leave without even countering the offer he'd received from another fairly local club is an absolute farce, especially when the excellent work he has put in around the course over the last 4 years is plain for everyone to see.

Maybe more should be included in the decision the men’s committee and lady Captain!

 

[Slab]

I honestly believe that unless there's a good 400-500 yards between tees (regardless of colour) then don't bother

 

[HeftyHacker]

Maybe more should be included in the decision the men’s committee and lady Captain!

I believe its a 5-3 male-female split at our club which doesn't seem too bad. Lady captain, competition secretary and social secretary all being female.

Edit: if you're referring to the wider membership being represented then I'd agree - many of the decisions made this year at a committee/board have been utterly bewildering and have alienated a large number of the members.

When I raised this in April time I was told that it would need to be raised at the AGM - which is in January. Nothing like proactively dealing with issues eh!

 

[CliveW]

Tomorrow we are having our first trial competition where you can specify before your round, which tees you are playing from. Should be interesting to see how many players play from which tees.

These are the rules.

A trial Competition, played from Mixed Tees. This means that players can choose a tee colour to play from and play the entire round from those tees. This puts the choice in the players hands. Score balancing will be in place therefore playing handicaps will be adjusted accordingly depending on what tee you play from to make it equitable across the field. Note on the card which tees you are playing from. £1 entry, £1.50 sweep and £1 Twos. Players must check in at the PSI or via their smartphone app before play to pay for the competition. Failure to do so will mean you will be unable to enter your card after your round!

 

[WGCRider]

Tomorrow we are having our first trial competition where you can specify before your round, which tees you are playing from. Should be interesting to see how many players play from which tees.

These are the rules.

A trial Competition, played from Mixed Tees. This means that players can choose a tee colour to play from and play the entire round from those tees. This puts the choice in the players hands. Score balancing will be in place therefore playing handicaps will be adjusted accordingly depending on what tee you play from to make it equitable across the field. Note on the card which tees you are playing from. £1 entry, £1.50 sweep and £1 Twos. Players must check in at the PSI or via their smartphone app before play to pay for the competition. Failure to do so will mean you will be unable to enter your card after your round!

That sounds like a great idea. Is Par the same for men of all the tees? I think I'd happily take a 2 shot playing handicap difference to play of the front tees rather than back. However if you also need to factor in Par 70 vs Par 72 it makes it interesting.

 

[CliveW]

That sounds like a great idea. Is Par the same for men of all the tees? I think I'd happily take a 2 shot playing handicap difference to play of the front tees rather than back. However if you also need to factor in Par 70 vs Par 72 it makes it interesting.

The tees have been rated for both Gents and Ladies, so different indexes for each. I don't have a card handy for the Lansdowne where the comp is being held tomorrow, but the Rosemount indexes are Gents White 72, Yellow 70 and Red 68. The Ladies are White 78, Yellow 74 and Red 74. Slope for Gents is White 131, Yellow 127 and Red 121. Ladies White 137, Yellow 132 and Red 128.

 

[Tashyboy]

Following this with interest as our course has been running comps like this all season. However no matter what tees you played off, everyone got extra shots. So the course is rated from All the tees but you still got extra shots. Suffice to say it didn’t go down well.

 

[CliveW]

We also had this email from the club

Dear Member,

Tomorrow sees the trial of using a mixed tee option for the Gents Stableford Competition. The process for entering the Sweep and Twos will remain the same as before, the only difference is that you will have to select the tees you wish to play from at the point of check in.

This then begs the questions, 'Which tees should I play from?'

There is no hard and fast answer to this question but there are a few methods that may help determine the answer for you.

• Think of the Par 3s and Par 4s, if you can't consistently reach all of the Par 3s in one shot or all of the Par 4s in two shots from the tee you regularly play from, it is a sign that you maybe need to move forward a set of tees.

and / or

• take the distance you consistently hit your 5 Iron, (not the distance of your 'Sunday best'!), multiply this by 36 and play from the tees that are closest to this number. For example:

average 5 iron distance of 165 yards x 36 = 5940 which equates to the Red Tee yardage on Lansdowne of 5986 yardage.

average 5 iron distance of 180 yards x 36 = 6480 which equates to the Yellow Tee yardage on Lansdowne of 6443 yardage.
and / or

• Drive Distance can be used as per the USGA recommendations:

Avg. drive	Recommended Tees
300 yards	7,150-7,400 yards
275 yards	6,700-6,900 yards
250 yards	6,200-6,400 yards
225 yards	5,800-6,000 yards
200 yards	5,200-5,400 yards
175 yards	4,400-4,600 yards

Please remember that the purpose of this trial is to provide the flexibility for members to play from the tees that will provide most enjoyment for them! The easiest way to make a course harder is not by growing the rough, adding bunkers or making the greens too quick to putt on but by simply making the course longer. It therefore stands to reason that being able to make the course shorter will make it easier and more enjoyable. The pace of play should improve too.

Handicap adjustments will be made depending on the tee played from to provide an equitable result at the end of the day.

We hope that all members enjoy this trial event.

Kind Regards

The Blairgowrie Golf Club

PS. This can also be transferred to bounce games, there should be no stigma attached to the red tees, as they are no longer to be classified solely as 'ladies tees' but are rated for the men now too.

 

[nickjdavis]

If there is twos sweep then play from the shortest tees!!

 

[D-S]

We also had this email from the club

Dear Member,

Tomorrow sees the trial of using a mixed tee option for the Gents Stableford Competition. The process for entering the Sweep and Twos will remain the same as before, the only difference is that you will have to select the tees you wish to play from at the point of check in.

This then begs the questions, 'Which tees should I play from?'

There is no hard and fast answer to this question but there are a few methods that may help determine the answer for you.

• Think of the Par 3s and Par 4s, if you can't consistently reach all of the Par 3s in one shot or all of the Par 4s in two shots from the tee you regularly play from, it is a sign that you maybe need to move forward a set of tees.

and / or

• take the distance you consistently hit your 5 Iron, (not the distance of your 'Sunday best'!), multiply this by 36 and play from the tees that are closest to this number. For example:

average 5 iron distance of 165 yards x 36 = 5940 which equates to the Red Tee yardage on Lansdowne of 5986 yardage.

average 5 iron distance of 180 yards x 36 = 6480 which equates to the Yellow Tee yardage on Lansdowne of 6443 yardage.
and / or

• Drive Distance can be used as per the USGA recommendations:

Avg. drive	Recommended Tees
300 yards	7,150-7,400 yards
275 yards	6,700-6,900 yards
250 yards	6,200-6,400 yards
225 yards	5,800-6,000 yards
200 yards	5,200-5,400 yards
175 yards	4,400-4,600 yards

Please remember that the purpose of this trial is to provide the flexibility for members to play from the tees that will provide most enjoyment for them! The easiest way to make a course harder is not by growing the rough, adding bunkers or making the greens too quick to putt on but by simply making the course longer. It therefore stands to reason that being able to make the course shorter will make it easier and more enjoyable. The pace of play should improve too.

Handicap adjustments will be made depending on the tee played from to provide an equitable result at the end of the day.

We hope that all members enjoy this trial event.

Kind Regards

The Blairgowrie Golf Club

PS. This can also be transferred to bounce games, there should be no stigma attached to the red tees, as they are no longer to be classified solely as 'ladies tees' but are rated for the men now too.

We have whites at 6400, yellows at 6000, reds at 5700 and blues at 5600.

Based on those recommended yardages we have no tees short enough for 90% of the women who play and no tees for well over 50% of the Seniors. Our white tees should only be used by a very small % of the whole membership and the yellows would be too tough for most.

 

[Voyager EMH]

We started running our weekly weekday medal this year with a choice of tees. Some chose the shorter yellows at first. This lasted a couple of weeks.
There is still a choice, but I don't think anyone chooses the yellows now.
The mantra became, "Play off the whites and get two more shots."

Par 70 off both.
White 70.8 and 132
Yellow 69.1 and 127

 

[WGCRider]

The tees have been rated for both Gents and Ladies, so different indexes for each. I don't have a card handy for the Lansdowne where the comp is being held tomorrow, but the Rosemount indexes are Gents White 72, Yellow 70 and Red 68. The Ladies are White 78, Yellow 74 and Red 74. Slope for Gents is White 131, Yellow 127 and Red 121. Ladies White 137, Yellow 132 and Red 128.

Without knowing the course I think it's a close decision. Just googled a scorecard and it looks like for men;

Red - slope 125, par 69, 6000yds
Yellow - slope 130, par 70, 6400yds
White - slope 135, par 71, 6800yds

So for say a 10hc to play off the reds you get 1 less shot than off the other 2 tees plus you're playing 1 or 2 par 5's as par 4's. For a lower HC - say 5 where your playing HC is 6 no matter what tee. I think you choose the reds every time.

 

[jim8flog]

I used to play with 2 guys who due to age could not make the fairways off the tee on many holes ( happens to a lot of us now off the whites) and were always complaining about it. When I asked them if they would play off the reds it was very resounding no. That's men for you.

 

[rulefan]

Without knowing the course I think it's a close decision. Just googled a scorecard and it looks like for men;

Red - slope 125, par 69, 6000yds
Yellow - slope 130, par 70, 6400yds
White - slope 135, par 71, 6800yds

So for say a 10hc to play off the reds you get 1 less shot than off the other 2 tees plus you're playing 1 or 2 par 5's as par 4's. For a lower HC - say 5 where your playing HC is 6 no matter what tee. I think you choose the reds every time.

It would have been useful if you had given the Course Rating then the Course Handicap (in this case 10) could be determined accurately.

 

[doublebogey7]

Without knowing the course I think it's a close decision. Just googled a scorecard and it looks like for men;

Red - slope 125, par 69, 6000yds
Yellow - slope 130, par 70, 6400yds
White - slope 135, par 71, 6800yds

So for say a 10hc to play off the reds you get 1 less shot than off the other 2 tees plus you're playing 1 or 2 par 5's as par 4's. For a lower HC - say 5 where your playing HC is 6 no matter what tee. I think you choose the reds every time.

You've failed to take the Course Ratings into account in your calculations. These are for men, Red 69, Yellow 71.2, White 73.5. So me with a HI of 9.1, my PH from the reds would be 4 shots lower than from the whites.