Discuss

[GB72]

Honestly, if this person had been sitting on a handicap waiting to put in a massive score, I am sure that he would not have wasted it on a bog standard midweek stapleford. Great round, had one of those days. I remember the looks that I got when I scored 45 points in the GM Centenary qualifier, it was also just one of those days (I entered a comp most weeks in those days so handicap was up to date). Too often people look to cry 'bandit' with no actual knowledge of the situation. Wish them well and congratulate then if you feel agrieved, look into it later to see if there are any grounds, just dont make assumptions.

 

[wjemather]

I'm happy he's had a great day and still playing golf but at the same time, should he be a 27? Your handicap should never allow you to be net 14 under par on your best day imho.

Until yesterday, yes, he should; and now he's 4 strokes lower because the system has recalculated and adjusted. (And for the second time, see #9, it's about 12 under handicap - par is completely irrelevant.)
That isn't how handicapping systems work, and nor should they. Handicaps would need to be capped at low single figures to prevent such scores. The higher the handicap, the lower the potential exceptional score.

 

[wjemather]

I don't really agree, I think if you've shot 80 for example, then you're capable of shooting 80 and there's nothing to say you won't do it again in the future. If you do never do it again then your handicap will come back down. Obviously in the old system he'd have been cut about 5 shots for this round which I think is fair enough for such a big leap forward in scoring. In WHS though he almost certainly won't be cut anywhere near that much, and thus even a slightly worse round next time will produce a huge points total.

His index has been reduced by 4.0 in total (combined effect of averaging the score in, and the automatic -2 exceptional scoring reduction).

 

[Orikoru]

His index has been reduced by 4.0 in total (combined effect of averaging the score in, and the automatic -2 exceptional scoring reduction).

Fair enough, I didn't realise the exceptional scoring reduction was still a thing.

 

[Billysboots]

I don't really agree, I think if you've shot 80 for example, then you're capable of shooting 80 and there's nothing to say you won't do it again in the future. If you do never do it again then your handicap will come back down. Obviously in the old system he'd have been cut about 5 shots for this round which I think is fair enough for such a big leap forward in scoring. In WHS though he almost certainly won't be cut anywhere near that much, and thus even a slightly worse round next time will produce a huge points total.

He was off 27. He’s now nearer 22.

If a 25 handicap shoots +10 you don’t immediately cut him to 10, just because he’s done it once. To suggest otherwise is a bit daft.

 

[wjemather]

If a 25 handicap shoots +10 you don’t immediately cut him to 10, just because he’s done it once. To suggest otherwise is a bit daft.

That's pretty much how the pre-1983 system worked, and almost no-one ever played to their handicap.

 

[SteveW86]

The automatic additional exceptional score reduction would have been -2.0, for shooting more than 10 shots under his Index

Is this actually automatic, or does it get picked up by someone and then applied. Is it also done off HI or CH?

 

[Springveldt]

Until yesterday, yes, he should; and now he's 4 strokes lower because the system has recalculated and adjusted. (And for the second time, see #9, it's about 12 under handicap - par is completely irrelevant.)
That isn't how handicapping systems work, and nor should they. Handicaps would need to be capped at low single figures to prevent such scores. The higher the handicap, the lower the potential exceptional score.

I'm fully aware of how the course rating works but he was still 14 under the par of the course.

It's fine, just a differing of opinions. You are fine with someone having 50 points while I think it's ridiculous. In the 6 years I've been playing again, I had never seen anyone get anywhere near 50 points at my place until someone had it in a sweep a few months ago.

 

[wjemather]

Is this actually automatic, or does it get picked up by someone and then applied. Is it also done off HI or CH?

Yes, it's automatic. It's assessed on the difference between the Score Differential and Handicap Index (Rule 5.9).

 

[wjemather]

I'm fully aware of how the course rating works but he was still 14 under the par of the course.

It's fine, just a differing of opinions. You are fine with someone having 50 points while I think it's ridiculous. In the 6 years I've been playing again, I had never seen anyone get anywhere near 50 points at my place until someone had it in a sweep a few months ago.

So you know that quoting par (and/or Stableford points) is irrelevant with respect to determining how well someone has played relative to handicap (or scratch); e.g. 50 points at one course is the equivalent of 42 points at another. Okay.

 

[SteveW86]

Yes, it's automatic. It's assessed on the difference between the Score Differential and Handicap Index (Rule 5.9).

That gives me a target

 

[Buckles01]

Fair play to the fella I say, I know this course very well and play it frequently, a well run club, very friendly and much respected locally. Never easy conditions as exposed to the winds and whilst not the longest certainly not the easiest

Rick Sheils didn’t rip it up.

 

[Springveldt]

So you know that quoting par (and/or Stableford points) is irrelevant with respect to determining how well someone has played relative to handicap (or scratch); e.g. 50 points at one course is the equivalent of 42 points at another. Okay.

Yes I am aware, thanks. Still think 50 points on a course you maintain your handicap at is ridiculous.

 

[Orikoru]

So you know that quoting par (and/or Stableford points) is irrelevant with respect to determining how well someone has played relative to handicap (or scratch); e.g. 50 points at one course is the equivalent of 42 points at another. Okay.

Why are you labouring this point? The conversation rate is never going to be so extreme as to make 50 points look mediocre is it?? ?

 

[bobmac]

Imagine having one of ''those days'' where everything goes to plan and a few putts drop and you come in with 42 points, Brill
Then you find out you're 8 points off the lead and not even in the prizes.

 

[clubchamp98]

Imagine having one of ''those days'' where everything goes to plan and a few putts drop and you come in with 42 points, Brill
Then you find out you're 8 points off the lead and not even in the prizes.

That happens at my place 90% of the time.
Usually now the low men do well only if the weather is bad and they can control their ball.
Good weather and someone always has “ one of them days”.
But 50 pts is a bit of a shocker. IMHO. But not surprising .

 

[Jigger]

Slightly different but here’s one for you all. We have a guy who plays with us and competes very well off a 32 handicap. He’s a member of a tough course (my course) for his style of golf so won’t be getting better. There are calls to max our society comps to 28 as he nearly won a league format and some don’t believe such a high handicapper should not be getting near. For me, this is the whole point of handicaps. They are there to provide a level playing field and a max 28 would only penalise him. I played with him yesterday and gave him 17 shots. We both played well to our standard in the conditions and I beat him by 1 shot and he was 2 of the lead in a group of 16. What I witnessed is that he used his shot to catch up to my drives and then we were pretty equal on approach. He is incredibly consistent for a 32hcp but only drives it about 170 so whilst he’ll never come in with 45pts he will beat people’s off days and is able to compete on league averages very well. The other high handicappers don’t like it as they are typical in that they will have more bad rounds than good so they struggle at the bottom of the table. For me, this example is handicaps working at their best.

 

[Swango1980]

Slightly different but here’s one for you all. We have a guy who plays with us and competes very well off a 32 handicap. He’s a member of a tough course (my course) for his style of golf so won’t be getting better. There are calls to max our society comps to 28 as he nearly won a league format and some don’t believe such a high handicapper should not be getting near. For me, this is the whole point of handicaps. They are there to provide a level playing field and a max 28 would only penalise him. I played with him yesterday and gave him 17 shots. We both played well to our standard in the conditions and I beat him by 1 shot and he was 2 of the lead in a group of 16. What I witnessed is that he used his shot to catch up to my drives and then we were pretty equal on approach. He is incredibly consistent for a 32hcp but only drives it about 170 so whilst he’ll never come in with 45pts he will beat people’s off days and is able to compete on league averages very well. The other high handicappers don’t like it as they are typical in that they will have more bad rounds than good so they struggle at the bottom of the table. For me, this example is handicaps working at their best.

No problem at all with his 32 handicap. If he has plenty of scores in his scoring history, and continues to submit scores, then it is a genuine handicap. 28 is just an imaginary number really, it isn't special.

 

[Backache]

Slightly different but here’s one for you all. We have a guy who plays with us and competes very well off a 32 handicap. He’s a member of a tough course (my course) for his style of golf so won’t be getting better. There are calls to max our society comps to 28 as he nearly won a league format and some don’t believe such a high handicapper should not be getting near. For me, this is the whole point of handicaps. They are there to provide a level playing field and a max 28 would only penalise him. I played with him yesterday and gave him 17 shots. We both played well to our standard in the conditions and I beat him by 1 shot and he was 2 of the lead in a group of 16. What I witnessed is that he used his shot to catch up to my drives and then we were pretty equal on approach. He is incredibly consistent for a 32hcp but only drives it about 170 so whilst he’ll never come in with 45pts he will beat people’s off days and is able to compete on league averages very well. The other high handicappers don’t like it as they are typical in that they will have more bad rounds than good so they struggle at the bottom of the table. For me, this example is handicaps working at their best.

I struggle with the concept that a 32 handicapper cannot get better unless they are very infirm.

 

[Swango1980]

I struggle with the concept that a 32 handicapper cannot get better unless they are very infirm.

Played with a couple of guys at work, who don't play any other time apart from once a year. They wouldn't be able to.play anywhere near a 54 handicap. If they practiced, maybe one day they could. Maybe. But never to 32. Their swings are awful. Like us (who ate right handed) but trying to play left handed, and even worse than that. Their bodies do not move in any way close to how they should in a golf swing.