Cost of Annual Membership at your Club

[Deleted member 25575]

I don’t believe the Wentworth yearly subs are ‘too bad’ it’s the debenture buy in that’s the killer

 

[Swango1980]

I don’t believe the Wentworth yearly subs are ‘too bad’ it’s the debenture buy in that’s the killer

It is a bit of an interesting read.

Back in 2015, after being bought by a Chinese firm, controversy was caused when membership fees were to be increased to $10,000 annually, and existing members would need to pay £100,000 debenture, new members £125,000.

A compromise was made, where existing members could continue to pay an annual fee (but higher than the one before), or could put down a £20,000 advance on a £85,000 debenture, and hand over the remainder after 3 years. New members had to pay $125,000, although that is now £150,000 (from an article written in March 2021).

Whatever the situation is now, I don't think the options in my poll will really do Wentworth justice, if one of their members chooses to vote. I suspect Woodhall Spa would be better value for money.

 

[Deleted member 25575]

It is a bit of an interesting read.

Back in 2015, after being bought by a Chinese firm, controversy was caused when membership fees were to be increased to $10,000 annually, and existing members would need to pay £100,000 debenture, new members £125,000.

A compromise was made, where existing members could continue to pay an annual fee (but higher than the one before), or could put down a £20,000 advance on a £85,000 debenture, and hand over the remainder after 3 years. New members had to pay $125,000, although that is now £150,000 (from an article written in March 2021).

Whatever the situation is now, I don't think the options in my poll will really do Wentworth justice, if one of their members chooses to vote. I suspect Woodhall Spa would be better value for money.

It’s a different world!

 

[JayB]

It is a bit of an interesting read.

Back in 2015, after being bought by a Chinese firm, controversy was caused when membership fees were to be increased to $10,000 annually, and existing members would need to pay £100,000 debenture, new members £125,000.

A compromise was made, where existing members could continue to pay an annual fee (but higher than the one before), or could put down a £20,000 advance on a £85,000 debenture, and hand over the remainder after 3 years. New members had to pay $125,000, although that is now £150,000 (from an article written in March 2021).

Whatever the situation is now, I don't think the options in my poll will really do Wentworth justice, if one of their members chooses to vote. I suspect Woodhall Spa would be better value for money.

Wow, I'm currently without a club and I refuse to join one that charges a joining fee, and I'm only talking of hundreds.

I couldn't even imagine a life where this would even be a consideration, absolutely insane.

 

[IanM]

My mate who was at Wentworth walked on principle when asked for the debenture. I would have thought the £100k for him wouldn't have been a problem. Trouble is, he can't sign me in as a guest any more "Times is hard!"

I used to love rolling up there, having lunch and playing which ever of the three courses was the members' course of the day. Some folk have no consideration!

 

[IanM]

Wow, I'm currently without a club and I refuse to join one that charges a joining fee, and I'm only talking of hundreds.

I understand the feeling, but sometimes you have to ask yourself if you want to play there, and you divide it over the time you might be there, does it make sense. It might not!

 

[Slab]

Wow, I'm currently without a club and I refuse to join one that charges a joining fee, and I'm only talking of hundreds.

I couldn't even imagine a life where this would even be a consideration, absolutely insane.

Although in most cases I guess you don't get a joining fee back
A debenture works (as I understand it) more like an investment/share purchase and after a preset number of years it can be sold for a profit/loss if you want to move clubs

 

[JayB]

I understand the feeling, but sometimes you have to ask yourself if you want to play there, and you divide it over the time you might be there, does it make sense. It might not!

Clubs local to me are not worth paying a joining fee for in my opinion.

My previous club introduced one about a year ago, only £200 but they don't have that any more. Thankfully I was already a member at the time but I'd be pretty annoyed if people joining before or after me didn't have to pay it no matter how small the amount.

Another club has a joining fee for 7 day members only, seems a little harsh in my mind to only charge the people who already pay the highest fee and probably in a lot of cases play the least.

I understand joining fees used to be common, I've not been playing that long and they didn't really seem a thing until Covid hit, I can imagine once the boom has passed and I would imagine numbers are already declining a little joining fee's at these run-of-the-mill clubs will just disappear again.

Others may and probably will disagree, but I won’t pay an additional fee just to have the privilege to spend more money at the club.

 

[IanM]

Clubs local to me are not worth paying a joining fee for in my opinion.

Agree completely, I had that when I lived in Wiltshire.... I am at a Club that has always had one. It sure helps lower membership churn. There's several groups in this part of the world who go from club to club every year saying "there are 15 of us wanting to join, how much discount can we have?" Next year they do the same somewhere else, if they can get away with it.

Another consideration is where the money goes, and there are differences!

 

[Swango1980]

Clubs local to me are not worth paying a joining fee for in my opinion.

My previous club introduced one about a year ago, only £200 but they don't have that any more. Thankfully I was already a member at the time but I'd be pretty annoyed if people joining before or after me didn't have to pay it no matter how small the amount.

Another club has a joining fee for 7 day members only, seems a little harsh in my mind to only charge the people who already pay the highest fee and probably in a lot of cases play the least.

I understand joining fees used to be common, I've not been playing that long and they didn't really seem a thing until Covid hit, I can imagine once the boom has passed and I would imagine numbers are already declining a little joining fee's at these run-of-the-mill clubs will just disappear again.

Others may and probably will disagree, but I won’t pay an additional fee just to have the privilege to spend more money at the club.

I joined my new club a month or two after they introduced a £300 joining fee, whereas the first wave of members leaving my old club to new club (there was a bit of an exodus from old place) didn't have to pay one. I wasn't really annoyed, as it is what is is at the time I decide to join. Although, I guess I would be frustrated / annoyed if I paid a joining fee, and a month or 2 later they completely scrapped it.

Yes, Covid saw the numbers playing golf rise quickly, so I guess it made sense for many clubs to introduce them. After all, they only have a limited amount they can really take in for membership, so when there are only limited slots left, might as well bring in members willing to pay that extra amount. Also, it helps "buy" loyalty from those members for a number of years. Of course, once clubs struggle to fill their full membership quota, then they need to introduce incentives for new blood to come through the door, and the joining fee can easily be scrapped.

 

[JayB]

Although in most cases I guess you don't get a joining fee back
A debenture works (as I understand it) more like an investment/share purchase and after a preset number of years it can be sold for a profit/loss if you want to move clubs

No idea, you're probably right but I don't think it's something I'd ever need to concern myself with

 

[JayB]

Also, it helps "buy" loyalty from those members for a number of years.

I don't like this either, personally I get bored easily and would like the option to change club every couple of years if I wanted too without having to pay numerous joining fee's

Also, in my opinion, if clubs want loyalty from customers, make sure the product is good.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

I don't like this either, personally I get bored easily and would like the option to change club every couple of years if I wanted too without having to pay numerous joining fee's

Also, in my opinion, if clubs want loyalty from customers, make sure the product is good.

Generally speaking, clubs with joining fees are member owned. They’re not a business aiming for a profit, and aren’t trying to attract customers. They want stability, and to be able to budget effectively.
If you want to move clubs every few years because you get bored, you’re not the really offering what a member owned clubs wants from their members.
Of course, you’re entitled to do what you like - but moaning about it seems a bit entitled.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't like this either, personally I get bored easily and would like the option to change club every couple of years if I wanted too without having to pay numerous joining fee's

Also, in my opinion, if clubs want loyalty from customers, make sure the product is good.

I know it doesn't meet the individual's needs, if a player gets bored. But, from the clubs perspective, I'm sure they'd rather have a more stable membership, with members rejoining. The quality of the product goes without saying, otherwise you'll struggle to get people to join, even if there is no joining fee. Technically, the joining fee should help enhance the product, and can give a club an additional huge chunk of money to invest into the club.

If a joining fee discourages new members that like to cycle through different golf clubs every year, and who are put off by paying an extra amount of money to invest in the club, then the club might see that as a good thing? Instead, any new members that do join ARE willing to invest the extra amount into the club, which probably signals those new members are going to be more committed to that club.

 

[JayB]

Generally speaking, clubs with joining fees are member owned. They’re not a business aiming for a profit, and aren’t trying to attract customers. They want stability, and to be able to budget effectively.
If you want to move clubs every few years because you get bored, you’re not the really offering what a member owned clubs wants from their members.
Of course, you’re entitled to do what you like - but moaning about it seems a bit entitled.

Not really moaning about it, just in my opinion I don't think the clubs (not just member clubs) local to me are worth paying a joining fee for, especially as 12 months ago none of these clubs had one and at a guess probably won't in 12 months time, so I choose not to.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Not really moaning about it, just in my opinion I don't think the clubs (not just member clubs) local to me are worth paying a joining fee for, especially as 12 months ago none of these clubs had one and at a guess probably won't in 12 months time, so I choose not to.

That’s fair - I think covid had a big impact and golf had a bit of a boom. Clubs are more full than before, so joining fees were implemented or increased and you are probably right that it’ll calm down again in a while.

I would argue that if they’re full enough to warrant having joining fees then that suggests enough people think it is worth it.

From experience, the difference between member owned (with a joining fee) vs privately owned (without a joining fee) was absolutely night and day. A massive difference and I wouldn’t ever go back. I loved golf at my old club, but now I love being a member of a club too.

 

[JayB]

I know it doesn't meet the individual's needs, if a player gets bored. But, from the clubs perspective, I'm sure they'd rather have a more stable membership, with members rejoining. The quality of the product goes without saying, otherwise you'll struggle to get people to join, even if there is no joining fee. Technically, the joining fee should help enhance the product, and can give a club an additional huge chunk of money to invest into the club.

If a joining fee discourages new members that like to cycle through different golf clubs every year, and who are put off by paying an extra amount of money to invest in the club, then the club might see that as a good thing? Instead, any new members that do join ARE willing to invest the extra amount into the club, which probably signals those new members are going to be more committed to that club.

I understand that, just doesn't suit me which is fine, I can live with that.

That’s fair - I think covid had a big impact and golf had a bit of a boom. Clubs are more full than before, so joining fees were implemented or increased and you are probably right that it’ll calm down again in a while.

I would argue that if they’re full enough to warrant having joining fees then that suggests enough people think it is worth it.

From experience, the difference between member owned (with a joining fee) vs privately owned (without a joining fee) was absolutely night and day. A massive difference and I wouldn’t ever go back. I loved golf at my old club, but now I love being a member of a club too.

Could be right, I can only go on my personal experience where my previous club like a lot of clubs had the membership boost during Covid and brought in a joining fee. The fact is it's no longer there would suggest to me that the numbers are declining again, even if only slightly.

 

[azazel]

Machrihanish was just under £430 for full membership in 2022, including £30 bar levy, £30 for a locker and £17.50 in levies. I think it's going up this year but can't remember how much - will still be under £500 tho.

Funnily enough, the subs letter came out today. £445 for all of the above.

 

[Mandofred]

I've always considered joining fees like "administrative fees"......just something tacked on to try and screw you out of more money.

Just an opinion of course.....

 

[Swango1980]

I've always considered joining fees like "administrative fees"......just something tacked on to try and screw you out of more money.

Just an opinion of course.....

Well, they ARE trying to get more money of you, however you want to phrase it. I'd have thought screwing you out of more money would be tricking you out of money? I mean, that isn't the case. The new member is in full knowledge of how much they are paying