Club Knockouts 2023

[IanM]

Maybe you should read my post back instead of acting like a smart arse.

Had a tough day chuck?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'd be asking for a discount on my membership fee in that case. Why should anyone pay full price knowing they will be limited to what events they can play with their handicap? There's no point someone of 40 entering a handicap comp with a max handicap allowance of 20. I can understand at opens/amateur events and a pro level the need to limit handicaps but for your standard club competition/medal? That's complete nonsense. The only real reason is the people who have been stuck at 6.1 for 10 years complaining because Person A who has recently joined the club and will get better at the game as time goes on and therefore will probably scoop up in medals. The same type of people that NR their card after one bad hole and protect their handicap at all costs.

Nobody should be discriminated against because of their level of play. Golf grew substantially over covid, measures like this will just put the newbies off and soon enough golf clubs will return to being to pre covid times. The game needs to move forward to retain the covid newbies and grow the game in a modern society. Golf needs to move forward and be progressive and affordable, not revert to type.

There are multiple competitions at the club that I’m not allowed to enter - shall i ask for a discount?

We have HC limits and how many cards must be entered before people can win some comps

What it should do is encourage people to get better

 

[IJames]

I'd be asking for a discount on my membership fee in that case. Why should anyone pay full price knowing they will be limited to what events they can play with their handicap? There's no point someone of 40 entering a handicap comp with a max handicap allowance of 20. I can understand at opens/amateur events and a pro level the need to limit handicaps but for your standard club competition/medal? That's complete nonsense. The only real reason is the people who have been stuck at 6.1 for 10 years complaining because Person A who has recently joined the club and will get better at the game as time goes on and therefore will probably scoop up in medals. The same type of people that NR their card after one bad hole and protect their handicap at all costs.

Nobody should be discriminated against because of their level of play. Golf grew substantially over covid, measures like this will just put the newbies off and soon enough golf clubs will return to being to pre covid times. The game needs to move forward to retain the covid newbies and grow the game in a modern society. Golf needs to move forward and be progressive and affordable, not revert to type.

I can't agree with this! It's quite reasonable, imo, for clubs to specify a limit that protects the integriy of 'major board' comps, especially with the significant increase in maximum handicaps! It's far easier, imo, for a high handicap to play 5+ shots below their Hcp than it is for a Cat 1! And please explain how NR-ing after one bad hole 'protects their handicap'! There is, however, an argument for a 'most improved player' award, though the parameters are arguable - I'd base it on percentage decrease in handicap rather than simple numerical reduction!

 

[Deleted member 29109]

There are multiple competitions at the club that I’m not allowed to enter - shall i ask for a discount?

We have HC limits and how many cards must be entered before people can win some comps

What it should do is encourage people to get better

There are a lot of comps at my club I can’t enter. There are probably more I can’t than can with the number of senior and ladies comps. Maybe I should ask for a discount too.

I fully agree there should be minimum handicaps for board comps (I’d have them for all bar junior comps) as winning a significant club comp with a score potentially over 100 is nonsense. It should provide an incentive to players to improve if they want to play competitively.

 

[Billysboots]

Probably the thing that I have read today that saddened me most. Alienating probably 40% of your members. I hope many leave for fresher pastures.

Our Club Championship has always been very elitist. Those with a handicap of 8 or less are entitled to play two rounds on the Saturday. Everyone else has to play over two days.

Given we are a club with very few very low handicap players, and a pretty limited competition field in total anyway, it just feels plain wrong. We have 9 handicap golfers who are well capable of shooting very low scores, potentially finishing in the top half dozen places, and yet they have to return on a Sunday to complete their Club Championship rounds.

All sorts of complaints have been made over the years - the higher handicap players being expected to give up their entire weekend, having to play in different conditions and so on - to the point where a number of people now boycott the event.

One of the primary reasons for the madness is that, as a proprietary club, the management will not turn the course over to the members for one day out of 365 so that 80-odd players can play 36 holes.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm being discriminated against by the PGA. I made myself available for the Ryder Cup, not a whiff of my invite yet.

Shocked! I’ll have a word with Luke next time we’re out on the course for a practice session with the rest of the boys…

 

[IJames]

Your standard monthly medals/stablefords/team events are not limited at all.

In the club champs we have a scratch-6 event, 6-15 even and 15+ event. Which is fair.

So it pays to be a 6 or 15 capper! Should other handicaps demend a resuction in fees?

 

[Deleted member 31467]

I'd be asking for a discount on my membership fee in that case. Why should anyone pay full price knowing they will be limited to what events they can play with their handicap? There's no point someone of 40 entering a handicap comp with a max handicap allowance of 20. I can understand at opens/amateur events and a pro level the need to limit handicaps but for your standard club competition/medal? That's complete nonsense. The only real reason is the people who have been stuck at 6.1 for 10 years complaining because Person A who has recently joined the club and will get better at the game as time goes on and therefore will probably scoop up in medals. The same type of people that NR their card after one bad hole and protect their handicap at all costs.

Nobody should be discriminated against because of their level of play. Golf grew substantially over covid, measures like this will just put the newbies off and soon enough golf clubs will return to being to pre covid times. The game needs to move forward to retain the covid newbies and grow the game in a modern society. Golf needs to move forward and be progressive and affordable, not revert to type.

My club plays in several inter club leagues. I'm not eligible for 3 of the teams because of my handicap, should I ask for a reduction in my subs?

 

[TigerTime]

Yes you all should if you're not happy about it.

I'm happy to pay my full share as I'm not excluded from anything. I can enter any event I want to. The qualifying for the club champs for example is done over a medal one day where anyone with any handicap can enter. The gross scores are then taken from the handicap ranges.

Looks like elitism is still live and well in golf, sad to see.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes you all should if you're not happy about it.

I'm happy to pay my full share as I'm not excluded from anything. I can enter any event I want to. The qualifying for the club champs for example is done over a medal one day where anyone with any handicap can enter. The gross scores are then taken from the handicap ranges.

Looks like elitism is still live and well in golf, sad to see.

How about everything is made truely fair then

The person who plays the best on the day wins - lowest shots win no HC

 

[3offTheTee]

I'm being discriminated against by the PGA. I made myself available for the Ryder Cup, not a whiff of my invite yet.

Understand there is a role available for somebody who,has passed the 2nd stage Referee’s exam!

 

[Oddsocks]

So, my first round match in this years singles comp is against a 43.7 H/C. How should I approach this? LOL

I’m really surprised that given most k/o’s are majors the club haven’t imposed a h/c limit.

 

[Neilds]

Yes you all should if you're not happy about it.

I'm happy to pay my full share as I'm not excluded from anything. I can enter any event I want to. The qualifying for the club champs for example is done over a medal one day where anyone with any handicap can enter. The gross scores are then taken from the handicap ranges.

Looks like elitism is still live and well in golf, sad to see.

So you are saying that every single competition at your club can be entered by everyone playing off their standard handicap? I would have thought most clubs have different board competitions for specific handicap ranges, both low and high. My club does for certain

 

[Hobbit]

Yes you all should if you're not happy about it.

I'm happy to pay my full share as I'm not excluded from anything. I can enter any event I want to. The qualifying for the club champs for example is done over a medal one day where anyone with any handicap can enter. The gross scores are then taken from the handicap ranges.

Looks like elitism is still live and well in golf, sad to see.

The handicap system isn’t perfect, and different comps tend to favour one ’part’ of the handicap range or another. The fact that many club comps post result and apportion prizes based on divisions prove the point. Most of the ‘exclusive’ comps are play by date comps like the summer knockouts, the play on date comps like Saturday Medals & Stablefords are open to all and played in divisions in most clubs. The majority of play by date comps don’t restrict access to the course because it’s a few members arranging a tee time to play a match.

Would I want to play in my preferred type of comp if I knew my handicap wasn’t the optimum one for that comp? I actually believe it’s better for everyone that there are ‘exclusive’ comps as well as comps that are open to all. It’s the best of both worlds. And just because some people can’t access the course on a specific date because there’s a rabbits open or a scratch comp, I don’t care. Both groups, on different dates, have their day.

Taking your elitism comment, would I want to run the 100m in the Olympics or play at Wimbledon? Those events are open to everyone in the world, just like the Open and the scratch championship at every club. It’s just that you need to attain a level of ability to play in them. Alternatively, you could argue that those that display an entitlement attitude, a belief that they should be entitled to compete against Rafa Nadal based on an unrestricted entry/draw are just being plain foolish.

 

[rulefan]

I seem to remember that England Golf ruled that qualification for the KO rounds could be limited by handicap, full handicaps had to be used for the KO rounds themselves.

 

[D-S]

We had playing handicap limits pre WHS and have them post WHS - this is not necessarily a WHS thing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A very few of our comps (main board comps) have handicap index / course handicap restrictions for entry; some (mostly the knock outs and other board comps) have no restriction for entry but have a cap on the playing handicap. The regular medals and ‘on the day’ comps have no handicap restrictions or caps.

The reasons for this are pretty obvious to those who understand the nature of handicaps and golf, and how higher handicappers can occasionally ‘do a dafty‘ round miles under their handicap, putting in a bonkers/fluke nett score or stableford total that is only possible as a result of their handicap and not really their general ability.

 

[rulefan]

We had playing handicap limits pre WHS and have them post WHS - this is not necessarily a WHS thing.

Indeed. This isn't a specific WHS thread

 

[Slab]

I think its fine to have a min/max handicap criteria for selected comps. What’s not fine is to allow players outwith that criteria to pay to enter and change their Playing Handicap

If they don’t qualify for a comp with a min/max handicap limitation then they cant play in it
(& any club worth its salt with have a proportional number of comps to suit all handicap ranges)

 

[TigerTime]

So you are saying that every single competition at your club can be entered by everyone playing off their standard handicap? I would have thought most clubs have different board competitions for specific handicap ranges, both low and high. My club does for certain

That is correct, for members. Opens are limited but we only have two opens a year. Like my example above. Club Championship is determined by using the monthly medal as qualifying - therefore anyone at any range can enter. The club then take the gross scores from different handicap ranges and then the matches are drawn for different handicap ranges.