Will Manufacturers Drive Dress Code Change in Clubs?

[hovis]

No I don’t think “that’s what wrong with golf”

There are always ways around any potential small issues , have a set of clothes in a locker , have them in your car just in case

There are always ways to be prepared for any scenarios - but you not being able to play in a tee shirt and board shorts “isn’t what’s wrong with golf”

So now I have to pay for a locker now? Phil you have a dinosaur mentality and it's clear nothing will sway your opinion on this issue. You are a very black and white person from reading historic posts so I would never expect you to agree or even see my point.

I CAN'T PLAY GOLF BECAUSE OF MY CLOTHS is a statement that the overwhelming majority of people think is crazy. This why the game attracts the people it does.
It amazes me how you mentioned golf has done alot to bring down barriers!!!! As long as you have a collar on your t shirt ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It is one thing, certainly. But the root of the issue being conservatism and snobbery is why manufacturers cannot push the boundary on what is acceptable for those clubs who have limits. The limits are not defined by current fashion, function, or convenience. But but maintaining continuity with standards of the past. New designs or innovations cannot change those standards of the past. Its why the Tiger collarless never became widespread. It didnt matter that the greatest golfer in the world wore it on the greatest courses of the world. They are not governed by those considerations, but by a frozen template from the past. And it was only a small step. Hoodies are an even bigger leap, but are for teenagers, gansta rappers, and curiously, seem to the a universal symbol and icon for computer hackers. It doesnt matter how many pro golfers wear them - no 'traditional' club is going to be swayed. (let alone by the like of Westwood wearing one, which has more than a touch of midlife crisis about it).

A traditional one will not be, agreed. They seem quite happy to remain in the 1950's. However, I've seen a very noticeable relaxing of rules in many other clubs from a rigid, 'this is what must be worn', to a smaller list of 'what musn't be worn'. A subtle difference but it is there and allows for more freedoms.

I've worn trainers after playing into every clubhouse I have been in this year with one exception (I check each club and only one excluded them) That would have been unthinkable when I first started playing. Hoodies, Tiger t-shirt, joggers, all unthinkable in the past but certainly allowed at many places now (or more accurately, not on the banned list )

The old clubs will remain with the stiff rules, but more and more are relaxing, even if it is at a slow pace.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

All the talk of traditions is nonsense or we’d all be dressed like shepherds from the 1600s.

 

[hovis]

A traditional one will not be, agreed. They seem quite happy to remain in the 1950's. However, I've seen a very noticeable relaxing of rules in many other clubs from a rigid, 'this is what must be worn', to a smaller list of 'what musn't be worn'. A subtle difference but it is there and allows for more freedoms.

I've worn trainers after playing into every clubhouse I have been in this year with one exception (I check each club and only one excluded them) That would have been unthinkable when I first started playing. Hoodies, Tiger t-shirt, joggers, all unthinkable in the past but certainly allowed at many places now (or more accurately, not on the banned list )

The old clubs will remain with the stiff rules, but more and more are relaxing, even if it is at a slow pace.

My club just spent 20k refurbing the club house only for it to look the same (like that scene of men behaving badly). You'd think they'd include a spike bar? Nope, back to the car or changing room you go

 

[Backsticks]

An interesting point, which sort of comes full circle on what I started this with. While manufacturers are pushing the boundaries of what's considered appropriate golf wear - if dress codes were actually scrapped, they'd have shot themselves in the foot as I'm sure sales of polos and other traditional golf wear would actually drop if people were able to wear any sports top they might already own. The concept of golf clothing brands would drop off since the items you'd wear for golf would be synonymous with any sportswear brand.

You can buy plenty of non-golf brand, as we know them, polos and trousers that look the same. Golf wear is effectively the sports-casual lampoon of Alan Partridge. Hideous, but somehow looks OK to us as we are familiar with it on a golf course. The brands are just that - Footjoy, Underarmour, Nike, Galvin Greene, Ping, etc : created 'golf' brands, so can sell standard shirts to a market they have created that thinks it needs a 'golf' shirt to play the game, and different one when just barbecuing in the back garden. But triple the price.

 

[Orikoru]

You can buy plenty of non-golf brand, as we know them, polos and trousers that look the same. Golf wear is effectively the sports-casual lampoon of Alan Partridge. Hideous, but somehow looks OK to us as we are familiar with it on a golf course. The brands are just that - Footjoy, Underarmour, Nike, Galvin Greene, Ping, etc : created 'golf' brands, so can sell standard shirts to a market they have created that thinks it needs a 'golf' shirt to play the game, and different one when just barbecuing in the back garden. But triple the price.

In summer though I would never wear a regular polo, like a Ralph or even an M&S type one as they tend to be made of thick cotton which is too warm. I buy golf polos which are polyester + elastane mostly. If it wasn't for the rule saying we must have collars on our shirts I would not have to do that, as material-wise they are exactly the same as the sports tops I would wear for tennis/football/running. The collar is literally the only difference.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So now I have to pay for a locker now? Phil you have a dinosaur mentality and it's clear nothing will sway your opinion on this issue. You are a very black and white person from reading historic posts so I would never expect you to agree or even see my point.

I CAN'T PLAY GOLF BECAUSE OF MY CLOTHS is a statement that the overwhelming majority of people think is crazy. This why the game attracts the people it does.
It amazes me how you mentioned golf has done alot to bring down barriers!!!! As long as you have a collar on your t shirt ?

Then have clothes with you in the car ?

Not sure why it’s a dinosaur mentality when i don’t have any issue wearing golf clothing to play golf

It’s also a choice you have to make - if you want to play at a golf club then it’s just about being respectful and following their rules ?

And yes golf has done a lot to bring down barriers - you can wear hoddies , trainers , jeans in clubhouses, prices , membership costs etc

Sports comes with equipment and clothing you need to wear to play - just because you don’t have the right clothing on you at that time doesn’t mean it’s a barrier put up by the sport.

You see golf differently to most it seems - you want to rock up play and then leave , no issues with that , and there are no doubt many clubs that are set up that way , should all the clubs set up for that or should they set up for what the majority of its members want

I know clubs nearby that allow you to wear what you want - don’t have any issues with that

 

[Lord Tyrion]

In summer though I would never wear a regular polo, like a Ralph or even an M&S type one as they tend to be made of thick cotton which is too warm. I buy golf polos which are polyester + elastane mostly. If it wasn't for the rule saying we must have collars on our shirts I would not have to do that, as material-wise they are exactly the same as the sports tops I would wear for tennis/football/running. The collar is literally the only difference.

Some will also have a mesh element to the sides or back which are glorious in really hot weather for allowing a gentle breeze through. I wore one like that, I think I got it from the running section of a Nike outlet although I never run, a couple of years ago in a really hot spell. It was definitely cooler to wear than even a standard golf shirt.

 

[GB72]

In summer though I would never wear a regular polo, like a Ralph or even an M&S type one as they tend to be made of thick cotton which is too warm. I buy golf polos which are polyester + elastane mostly. If it wasn't for the rule saying we must have collars on our shirts I would not have to do that, as material-wise they are exactly the same as the sports tops I would wear for tennis/football/running. The collar is literally the only difference.

I have plenty of plain, breathable, comfortable gym shirts that are far more comfortable and practical than traditional golf shirts but sadly not allowed.

I am sure that she must have borrowed the quote from somewhere but when discussing this in the past with my my wife she asked if any sport that has a dress code of 'smart casual' can really be classed as a sport

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Some will also have a mesh element to the sides or back which are glorious in really hot weather for allowing a gentle breeze through. I wore one like that, I think I got it from the running section of a Nike outlet although I never run, a couple of years ago in a really hot spell. It was definitely cooler to wear than even a standard golf shirt.

Golf clothing is manufactured for the different climates - I have lots of polos for the summer which are thin and allow them breeze plus heavier ones for the winter

There are also a lot of good tops out there for a fraction of the prize of other sport tops

 

[hovis]

You see golf differently to most it seems - you want to rock up play and then leave , no issues with that , and there are no doubt many clubs that are set up that way , should all the clubs set up for that or should they set up for what the majority of its members want

I see golf differently to most? Have a look at how many likes your posts are getting Phil!!! If you interviewed golfers the overwhelming majority of people would not give a toss if you had a collar on your shirt of not.
I see golf like the majority do. It will come to no surprise to you that I am often challenged for not having my shirt tucked in. It starts off tucked in but comes out at the front and stays out. I have never been challenged by anyone other that old white men after "normal people just walked by"

 

[GB72]

Then have clothes with you in the car ?

Not sure why it’s a dinosaur mentality when i don’t have any issue wearing golf clothing to play golf

It’s also a choice you have to make - if you want to play at a golf club then it’s just about being respectful and following their rules ?

And yes golf has done a lot to bring down barriers - you can wear hoddies , trainers , jeans in clubhouses, prices , membership costs etc

Sports comes with equipment and clothing you need to wear to play - just because you don’t have the right clothing on you at that time doesn’t mean it’s a barrier put up by the sport.

You see golf differently to most it seems - you want to rock up play and then leave , no issues with that , and there are no doubt many clubs that are set up that way , should all the clubs set up for that or should they set up for what the majority of its members want

I know clubs nearby that allow you to wear what you want - don’t have any issues with that

The thing is, it is a bar to playing. With any other sport I have played, I could go to training in whatever I want. It would not be comfortable or practical but nobody is going to throw me out for not being smart enough.

As for the barriers, still plenty of places around me where you cannot wear whatever you like in the clubhouse and prices in golf are going up year on year. Those are the minor barriers though and, again only speaking from experience, sexism, racisum and all other types of boggotry remian in the golf club environment and those are far more significant barriers that continue to exist albeit thinly veiled as jokes and banter.

In any event, I have made my decision in relation to gofl clubs and so feel perfectly able to dsicuss the rules that prevent me wanting to re-join one.

 

[hovis]

In any event, I have made my decision in relation to gofl clubs and so feel perfectly able to dsicuss the rules that prevent me wanting to re-join one.

I have been at my club for 2 years. I'm leaving due to many of the reasons you have. It's back to the belfry for me. Fits my requirements just fine. Can't see me joining a golf club for a long while

 

[Backsticks]

Sports comes with equipment and clothing you need to wear to play - just because you don’t have the right clothing on you at that time doesn’t mean it’s a barrier put up by the sport.

'Some' sports come with equipment and clothing you need to wear to play. Of course fencing or scuba diving need special clothes. But the point that irks some people is that to golf, you dont. You can play in jeans and a vest. People might have different preferences, or be willing to spend to indulge that little bit of extra comfort or garment optimised to the weather. But that shouldnt lead to imposing a dress code, and that all it is, a code, not a functional or safety requirement, on others.
So its just old fashioned snobbery.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I see golf differently to most? Have a look at how many likes your posts are getting Phil!!!

Yes you appear to just want to play golf and not partake in the full experience of being a member of a golf club - as I said that is something that I see as rare , again no issues with that but most golf clubs are set as “clubs” as opposed to just course , so people will have lockers etc for those times when they just want to rock up from work and play - we see it every day

No idea what the “likes” have to do with it

If you interviewed golfers the overwhelming majority of people would not give a toss if you had a collar on your shirt of not.
I see golf like the majority do. It will come to no surprise to you that I am often challenged for not having my shirt tucked in. It starts off tucked in but comes out at the front and stays out. I have never been challenged by anyone other that old white men after "normal people just walked by"

I suspect that most are happy to wear golf clothes , follow the dress codes and just enjoy themselves

And yes it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that you wear you shirt untucked.

 

[GB72]

I have been at my club for 2 years. I'm leaving due to many of the reasons you have. It's back to the belfry for me. Fits my requirements just fine. Can't see me joining a golf club for a long while

I have been a member of a club or one sort or another for about 15 years but have felt myself shoehorned in to outmoded ideas and surrounded by outmoded attitudes (not by everyone by any strecth but mainly from those seen as the great and the good of the respective club set ups) and, along with feeling that I was not getting value for my membership, I spent years feeling out of place in an environment where I was supposed to relax and enjoy myself in. On course attitudes did not help (temper, temprement and attitudes on the course just seemed to be getting worse year on year) and so I decided that, at least with in the experience of clubs that I had been associated with, that I loved golf but disliked golf clubs and decided to quit for a while. Bear in mind that I am not that extreme in my look, views and attitudes, I can only imagine how intimidating golf clubs can be to some.

Some of the clubs on here sound great, they are just not near to me so are not practical. Love playing golf but yes, dress codes, rules and attitudes as a bar to me playing so I dont.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I see golf differently to most? Have a look at how many likes your posts are getting Phil!!! If you interviewed golfers the overwhelming majority of people would not give a toss if you had a collar on your shirt of not.
I see golf like the majority do. It will come to no surprise to you that I am often challenged for not having my shirt tucked in. It starts off tucked in but comes out at the front and stays out. I have never been challenged by anyone other that old white men after "normal people just walked by"

Same blinkered approach adopted by some to so many posts which is why they disintegrate into sniping contests. They will never see another side and this is another classic example. There are clubs around that are growing the game and have no rules like this one and are going from strength to strength especially with junior golf

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The thing is, it is a bar to playing. With any other sport I have played, I could go to training in whatever I want. It would not be comfortable or practical but nobody is going to throw me out for not being smart enough.

As for the barriers, still plenty of places around me where you cannot wear whatever you like in the clubhouse and prices in golf are going up year on year. Those are the minor barriers though and, again only speaking from experience, sexism, racisum and all other types of boggotry remian in the golf club environment and those are far more significant barriers that continue to exist albeit thinly veiled as jokes and banter.

In any event, I have made my decision in relation to gofl clubs and so feel perfectly able to dsicuss the rules that prevent me wanting to re-join one.

Not sure what’s meant by that but that’s quite a statement to make towards golf clubs .

Is it the same sort of banter that’s seen is football , rugby , cricket clubs etc

Many clubs now have safeguarding officers and compliance officers to look to rule out the behaviour you highlight above , that’s a directive from EG etc

So I’m not sure what clubs you are witnessing the behaviour you highlight but i would hope that you followed the complaints procedure at the club or clubs

 

[GB72]

Not sure what’s meant by that but that’s quite a statement to make towards golf clubs .

Is it the same sort of banter that’s seen is football , rugby , cricket clubs etc

Many clubs now have safeguarding officers and compliance officers to look to rule out the behaviour you highlight above , that’s a directive from EG etc

So I’m not sure what clubs you are witnessing the behaviour you highlight but i would hope that you followed the complaints procedure at the club or clubs

No, I first just stopped frequenting the clubhouse, then changed playing partners a few time and then quit and left. Do you really think that any person would be made welcome in a club if they kept reporting 70s era social attitudes to the committee.

As for safeguarding and compliance, I have seen loud conversations with both racist and sexist humour in golf club bars with not even a tut from the committee members past and prestent there but, hey, ist all jokes and banter.

And, just because it goes on elsewhere is not a defence but I have, whilst sexism was a massive issue withn my 40 years in and around rugby clubs, seen more examples of casual and specific racism, anti LGBT and other forms of general biggotry in 15 years in around around golf clubs than in a lifetime of rugby membership. In fact now rugby clubs have changed beyond recognition with the ones that I still visit being very family friendly with the old rugby attitudes all but gone. In fact, family attendance is very much encouraged, and you can wear what you like.

But, your point of view is clear, golf clubs are perfect, the rules are perfect, attitudes are perfect and dress codes are perfect, golf tours are perfect, everyting is just aweome. I have a different attitude and eventually stood by my convictions and walked away and on that basis feel I am in a position to objectively question such matters.

 

[Backache]

Same blinkered approach adopted by some to so many posts which is why they disintegrate into sniping contests. They will never see another side and this is another classic example. There are clubs around that are growing the game and have no rules like this one and are going from strength to strength especially with junior golf

As stated before I am not bothered by dress codes and am quite happy we don't have one. But having seen that video what amused me is that an early middle aged man thinks dress codes are outmoded and will put people off and the two young lads who he is playing pitch up in classical respectable golf attire.
I suspect it's olderblokes who complain most about it on behalf of the young who are less bothered.
Not saying that middle aged blokes should have more restrictions but that it is generally less of a problem than some perceive it.