WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[Swango1980]

Im spending a good two hours a day on this and like you I’m the unpaid numpty that members think they can ring all day and night.

Had a bit of a moment on the course yesterday when a member came across and asked me to input his casual card when I had finished, asked him if he had pre registered (we have the procedure on inter web and notice boards) he said he had. Quite a picture as I ripped his card up in front of him and then pointed him in the direction of things to read.

Do you mean he hadn't? Otherwise it seems like quite a harsh reaction haha

No doubt I'll find another dozen physical general play cards at the club tomorrow, where members expect me to put them in the system, with none of them having pre-registered. Then I've to go through another round of e-mails explaining to them why I will not be submitting them.

Pretty much the only thing on our noticeboard at the moment is a notice on how to submit general play scores, and how to fill in a scorecard (after they've all just been put back up after refurbishment). E-mails had been sent out pre and post WHS. I'm convinced many do not bother with noticeboards or check e-mail.

 

[Old Skier]

Do you mean he hadn't? Otherwise it seems like quite a harsh reaction haha

No doubt I'll find another dozen physical general play cards at the club tomorrow, where members expect me to put them in the system, with none of them having pre-registered. Then I've to go through another round of e-mails explaining to them why I will not be submitting them.

Pretty much the only thing on our noticeboard at the moment is a notice on how to submit general play scores, and how to fill in a scorecard (after they've all just been put back up after refurbishment). E-mails had been sent out pre and post WHS. I'm convinced many do not bother with noticeboards or check e-mail.

Yes sorry “he hadn’t “.

 

[Swango1980]

I put in a score for a member via Club V1 (1st card for handicap). Once I saved it, noticed I made an error. So, I edited the score in Club V1 and saved it again. However, on WHS his score was sent straight across. But, the score remained the initial entry, not the corrected entry. So, I'm assuming editing a score on Club V1 is meaningless, it must be done directly on WHS Portal?

Also, when I have a new member who starts sending in cards, on Club V1 I will assign them a CDH, and their record is then created straight away on WHS. However, I notice it does not pass their e-mail address and DOB to WHS, despite having them in Club V1. So, they need to be manually entered. Not sure if that is intentional.

 

[Old Skier]

I put in a score for a member via Club V1 (1st card for handicap). Once I saved it, noticed I made an error. So, I edited the score in Club V1 and saved it again. However, on WHS his score was sent straight across. But, the score remained the initial entry, not the corrected entry. So, I'm assuming editing a score on Club V1 is meaningless, it must be done directly on WHS Portal?

Also, when I have a new member who starts sending in cards, on Club V1 I will assign them a CDH, and their record is then created straight away on WHS. However, I notice it does not pass their e-mail address and DOB to WHS, despite having them in Club V1. So, they need to be manually entered. Not sure if that is intentional.

Not heard of email or DOB transferring across or noticed.

 

[Swango1980]

Penalty Score: I am entering a penalty score for a guy who couldn't be bothered going back to the tee on the 15th in Thursday's medal, so just picked up and didn't hand in card.

Looking at the CONGU advice on penalty scores, it doesn't strictly state this situation. I assume I should follow the "Possible attempt to keep handicap low" guideline, and enter a penalty score equal to his current highest score in last 20? I know he wasn't trying to keep his handicap low, he just didn't realise he had to hand it in. But, it seems like the most logical penalty score to apply.

 

[NearHull]

Penalty Score: I am entering a penalty score for a guy who couldn't be bothered going back to the tee on the 15th in Thursday's medal, so just picked up and didn't hand in card.

Looking at the CONGU advice on penalty scores, it doesn't strictly state this situation. I assume I should follow the "Possible attempt to keep handicap low" guideline, and enter a penalty score equal to his current highest score in last 20? I know he wasn't trying to keep his handicap low, he just didn't realise he had to hand it in. But, it seems like the most logical penalty score to apply.

I am watching the replies with interest as I do not know the answer. My guess , for what its worth, is Net Double Bogey for 15 and Net Par for 16,17 and 18.

The H &C Committee noting the failure to return a card with a warning passed to the player that another occurrence may bring sanctions.

 

[Old Skier]

Penalty Score: I am entering a penalty score for a guy who couldn't be bothered going back to the tee on the 15th in Thursday's medal, so just picked up and didn't hand in card.

Looking at the CONGU advice on penalty scores, it doesn't strictly state this situation. I assume I should follow the "Possible attempt to keep handicap low" guideline, and enter a penalty score equal to his current highest score in last 20? I know he wasn't trying to keep his handicap low, he just didn't realise he had to hand it in. But, it seems like the most logical penalty score to apply.

Is he a regular NR member, if so then the penalty score rules should come into play. If it’s a one off then a quite chat and as he has completed the min number of holes enter scores as per the WHS advice. I have emailed all members with the consequences of NR cards and the sanctions that can be applied.

 

[Swango1980]

I am watching the replies with interest as I do not know the answer. My guess , for what its worth, is Net Double Bogey for 15 and Net Par for 16,17 and 18.

The H &C Committee noting the failure to return a card with a warning passed to the player that another occurrence may bring sanctions.

In response to you, and Old Skier

We do not have any of his hole scores, and cannot retrieve them as he binned card (I suppose we could ask him if he can give them from memory, but that doesn't seem right).

I initially looked at CONGU guidance, and initially felt failure to submit card could be associated with "memory" as he was unaware he had to hand it in if be blobbed the competition. However, that would mean the penalty score would need to reflect a gross score of CR+Course Handicap (I.e. reflect current index), and thus it would become one of his top 8 rounds. That is clearly not right. So, even though he wasn't actually trying to keep handicap too low, following the advice for this seemed more appropriate (I.e. penalty score match his worst score in last 20).

He is not a regular NR player. However, i text him the next day to explain why it is important not to NR, and to continue playing even if he blobs a medal hole. He was fine with that, so hopefully he will not do it again.

I suspect I will send this text to a few members over the coming months. We'll formalise the process once players get to grips with WHS basics. I have lightly touched on the importance of not NRing in general communications, but I don't want to scare or confuse members with even more info. Certainly didn't want to threaten potential disciplinary procedures for regular NRs, as it might put people off entering comps when they are struggling to even understand Course and Playing Handicaps

 

[Swango1980]

Let's hope the MyEG App works today to pre register and enter score for a general play round. It looks like Howdidido is down. Have been unable to get in all morning. Anyone else having issues?

 

[upsidedown]

Let's hope the MyEG App works today to pre register and enter score for a general play round. It looks like Howdidido is down. Have been unable to get in all morning. Anyone else having issues?

Yes same here ?

 

[Old Skier]

Let's hope the MyEG App works today to pre register and enter score for a general play round. It looks like Howdidido is down. Have been unable to get in all morning. Anyone else having issues?

Down now, was available earlier.

 

[jim8flog]

In response to you, and Old Skier

We do not have any of his hole scores, and cannot retrieve them as he binned card (I suppose we could ask him if he can give them from memory, but that doesn't seem right).

Where I play the player marks their own card and the marker keeps the players score in the markers column on their card. We would be able to identify the marker from the booking sheet and could retrieve the scores from that card.

It would be NR for hole 15 and penalty score for holes 17 and 18 if none were were recorded.

 

[Swango1980]

Where I play the player marks their own card and the marker keeps the players score in the markers column on their card. We would be able to identify the marker from the booking sheet and could retrieve the scores from that card.

It would be NR for hole 15 and penalty score for holes 17 and 18 if none were were recorded.

We do that for normal comps. But, on a Thursday players just book their own tee time any time of day, and submit score after. So, they are not necessarily playing with another player playing in comp (which he wasn't). But yeah, in normal times we'd have more of a fighting chance on finding his score

 

[wjemather]

In response to you, and Old Skier

We do not have any of his hole scores, and cannot retrieve them as he binned card (I suppose we could ask him if he can give them from memory, but that doesn't seem right).

I initially looked at CONGU guidance, and initially felt failure to submit card could be associated with "memory" as he was unaware he had to hand it in if be blobbed the competition. However, that would mean the penalty score would need to reflect a gross score of CR+Course Handicap (I.e. reflect current index), and thus it would become one of his top 8 rounds. That is clearly not right. So, even though he wasn't actually trying to keep handicap too low, following the advice for this seemed more appropriate (I.e. penalty score match his worst score in last 20).

He is not a regular NR player. However, i text him the next day to explain why it is important not to NR, and to continue playing even if he blobs a medal hole. He was fine with that, so hopefully he will not do it again.

I suspect I will send this text to a few members over the coming months. We'll formalise the process once players get to grips with WHS basics. I have lightly touched on the importance of not NRing in general communications, but I don't want to scare or confuse members with even more info. Certainly didn't want to threaten potential disciplinary procedures for regular NRs, as it might put people off entering comps when they are struggling to even understand Course and Playing Handicaps

There is no need to enter a penalty score in this case. Since you don't know the scores and there was no intention to manipulate the system, simply delete any incorrect score (if one has been sent from your ISV) from his WHS record and issue a reminder.

How many reminders individuals should get before penalty scores start being applied is a matter of judgement for the handicap committee.

Curiously, the only player not to return their score yesterday is the husband of one of our handicap secretaries!

 

[nickjdavis]

Has anybody made ant decisions as to what penalty to apply when players have "unfulfilled score intents" (i.e. when they've pre-registered a general play round but not gone on to submit the card) and how long you give them to enter their scores?

 

[Old Skier]

Has anybody made ant decisions as to what penalty to apply when players have "unfulfilled score intents" (i.e. when they've pre-registered a general play round but not gone on to submit the card) and how long you give them to enter their scores?

At the moment I am trying to be more informative than punitive but in the end it will be the same as a NR and full penalty scores will be applied

 

[wjemather]

Has anybody made ant decisions as to what penalty to apply when players have "unfulfilled score intents" (i.e. when they've pre-registered a general play round but not gone on to submit the card) and how long you give them to enter their scores?

Unless someone is trying to manipulate their handicap (hopefully no-one does this), I'm just issuing reminders at the moment and deleting any intents or bogus scores passed from ClubV1 if the actual scores cannot be determined. Scores should be entered by midnight the same day, so I am following up the following day at the moment.

Except in the case of manipulation, per the guidance, a penalty score with an adjusted gross equal to "Course Rating + Course Handicap" will be applied if we get any persistent offenders.

 

[Tod1959]

what happens when a player legitimately uses the app to submit a general play score for handicapping purposes and their name then appears on the unsatisfied score intent report. What actions are expected of the handicap secretary?

 

[Old Skier]

what happens when a player legitimately uses the app to submit a general play score for handicapping purposes and their name then appears on the unsatisfied score intent report. What actions are expected of the handicap secretary?

Could you clarify which app and not familier with the unsatisfied score intent report.

 

[Tod1959]

England golf app and the report is on the England golf WHS website