JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
The mystery continues.....
What do you think ?
- Thread starter bobmac
- Start date
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
To me (a self admited dunce in these areas) i like feeling that coil spring effect (for want of a better term)
In my humble opinion if any part of the down swing started before the backswing finished i think it would cost me power .. get to top of swing then start forward .. but hey what do i know
In my humble opinion if any part of the down swing started before the backswing finished i think it would cost me power .. get to top of swing then start forward .. but hey what do i know
A
Alex1975
Guest
My understanding is that in a one plane swing if you can move your left hip anticlockwise a small amount just before you finish the back swing you will gain yards and keep the ball on target. I have a feeling its not the same with the two place swing.
richart
Major Champion
I have had a one plane swing lesson recently. My backswing has always been one plane, but I really struggle from the top. My swing thought is to bump my right hip towards the target, and then turn my left one. Problem is trying to do both, so I either slide past the ball with the left hip turning too late, or just turn my left hip too quickly. When I get it right it feels good, but I can only do it consistently off an an uphill lie.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'd suggest you simply concentrate on the left one while keeping the upper arms 'tight' to the chest - connected. The forward hip slide should happen automatically. 'Bumping' the hips is more a 2-plane phenomenon I believe.
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richart
Major Champion
Problem there is if I don't bump my right hip, it spins out towards the ball, and I pull everything left. I have to practice swinging against the back of a chair, and keep my right hip in contact with it at teh start of the down swing.
Strangely I can do it after about 9 holes, so it may be that it justs takes me for ever to warm up the body.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Hip bump is important in both, you just don't need the x-factor part in the one-plane... thank God for Richart
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
ultimately, for any given length of backswing (shoulder position at the top), you can create more coil if the lower body has started forwards before the shoulders reach the top.
I'm not sure that such tension is necessarily constructive for most - but still await Bob's pronuncements when he's ready!
I'm not sure that such tension is necessarily constructive for most - but still await Bob's pronuncements when he's ready!
bobmac
Major Champion
I have no right or wrong answer, I was just curious to know what people's thoughts were (if any)
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
sorry, my fault for the wording!
I would appreciate your thoughts on whether getting the maximum possible tension (coil) in the torso will make a constructive contribution to most players ability to hit the ball further ?
Hooper
Head Pro
I try to go with my lower/mid left side. If I try with just the hips I spin out of it and everything goes right or catches the bus to shank city.
richart
Major Champion
Sorry James I don't understand.Hip bump is important in both, you just don't need the x-factor part in the one-plane... thank God for Richart
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Don't worry Rich it was my lame attempt at humour. For a one-plane swing you were bang on... you'd feel like your right hip was still against the chair at the start of the downswing, that said you should still feel like you've slightly moved weight targetwards, into your left side...
[video=youtube;NNwSfz0_KDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNwSfz0_KDM[/video]
[video=youtube;NNwSfz0_KDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNwSfz0_KDM[/video]
richart
Major Champion
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I dont buy in to this 'X' Factor stuff, I dont see how you can create torque between the hips and shoulders, they move fairly independent of each other. If you make a backswing to the top and restrict your hip turn then stop, your shoulders dont want to spin back again. To me the only thing that wants me to get my shoulders back quickly is the uncomfortable feeling at being in this contorted position.
IMO the hips need to slide and rotate so the upper body, and arms can move into the correct positions to deliver the clubhead. I am not saying the core rotation of the torso and shoulders are not power generators because they are, I am more saying that the coil between the upper and lower body is not. I also think that getting the lower body rotating too fast in the down swing creates a whole group of problems with the arms getting access to the striking zone.
IMO the hips need to slide and rotate so the upper body, and arms can move into the correct positions to deliver the clubhead. I am not saying the core rotation of the torso and shoulders are not power generators because they are, I am more saying that the coil between the upper and lower body is not. I also think that getting the lower body rotating too fast in the down swing creates a whole group of problems with the arms getting access to the striking zone.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I agree entirely with what you said above, more so if you're sold on a one-plane swing.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Foxholer
Blackballed
Problem there is if I don't bump my right hip, it spins out towards the ball, and I pull everything left. I have to practice swinging against the back of a chair, and keep my right hip in contact with it at teh start of the down swing.
Strangely I can do it after about 9 holes, so it may be that it justs takes me for ever to warm up the body.
Well, given that the left and rights hips are actually connected, via the pelvis, anything you do to one will have an effect on the other!
What I was really meaning was to concentrate 'your thoughts' on the left one such that whatever you do with it has the desired effect. I believe there are too many things going at that time to switch concentration from one element of the swing to another. Better to find a single activity that satisfies both requirements and concentrate on that - and I think the left hip is the one to go for - you may be different to me.
Hip bump is important in both, you just don't need the x-factor part in the one-plane... thank God for Richart
I understood that 1PS was a bit 'smoother'. Here;s a quote from Mike LaBauve that seems to be consistent - and I think Hardy even states something along these lines - 'In a one plane motion the arms, shoulders and hips all turn around in a circle as opposed to a slide and hip bump in the two plane swing.'
I feel faint
Call an ambulance. I agree too! :whoo:
The coil doesn't work like a spring! (so we all agree. I don't believe McLean (who proposed X-Factor) actually stated that it did. What it does do is put the body into a position where it can maximise the effect (speed/power) of the difference between hips and torso turn. Obviously, at least to me, the overall speed/power can be maximised if there's both a decent hip turn AND a decent 'X-factor'/torso/shoulder turn.
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JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I'd say a 1PS the hip slide action is less and somewhat combined with the downswing turn provided you have SOME action in transition.
In the 2PS the hip slide is more pronounced (according to the shot you are playing) as it's more important to slot the club so the arm swing can take over, and an amount of x-factor is also subseqently achieved. Too much and you're literally leaving the club a mile behind and miles open so some skill at sequencing (timing) comes into play.
From what I can tell there isn't a rubberised part of the body that will coil, our muscle tissue isn't stretchy, neither are our ligaments or our bones (just ask footballers about knees!) so a coil that provides any real or measurable tension is just a whisper from causing an injury. Our bodies are made up of a supported frame of very fragile pivots and levers.... not elastic. Learning to leverage that structure on an inclined plane is the 'secret' to golf.
In the 2PS the hip slide is more pronounced (according to the shot you are playing) as it's more important to slot the club so the arm swing can take over, and an amount of x-factor is also subseqently achieved. Too much and you're literally leaving the club a mile behind and miles open so some skill at sequencing (timing) comes into play.
From what I can tell there isn't a rubberised part of the body that will coil, our muscle tissue isn't stretchy, neither are our ligaments or our bones (just ask footballers about knees!) so a coil that provides any real or measurable tension is just a whisper from causing an injury. Our bodies are made up of a supported frame of very fragile pivots and levers.... not elastic. Learning to leverage that structure on an inclined plane is the 'secret' to golf.
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SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I know I had real problems with this once. I read and was told about getting the hips to power the swing and snap round in the transition. I had real problems with leaving the club behind me with the face open creating big pushes and Shermans.
I have liked that Video from Shaun Clements on the tooch line power move for a while, it's a great drill.
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